The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?

Posted on | December 2, 2013 | 76 Comments

In an editorial Sunday, the New York York Times argued that America’s troops are being paid too much:

Big-ticket weapons like aircraft carriers and the F-35 fighter jet have to be part of any conversation about cutting Pentagon spending to satisfy the mandatory budget reductions known as the sequester. But compensation for military personnel has to be on the table, too . . .
[T]he Pentagon is obliged to find nearly $1 trillion in savings over 10 years. Tough choices will be required in all parts of the budget. Compensation includes pay, retirement benefits, health care and housing allowances.

Got that, troops? “Tough choices,” your compensation is “on the table,” because defending your nation isn’t really anything special.

On the other hand, says New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, something must be done for America’s real heroes, retail clerks:

The last few decades have been tough for many American workers, but especially hard on those employed in retail trade — a category that includes both the sales clerks at your local Walmart and the staff at your local McDonald’s. Despite the lingering effects of the financial crisis, America is a much richer country than it was 40 years ago. But the inflation-adjusted wages of nonsupervisory workers in retail trade — who weren’t particularly well paid to begin with — have fallen almost 30 percent since 1973.
So can anything be done to help these workers, many of whom depend on food stamps — if they can get them — to feed their families, and who depend on Medicaid — again, if they can get it — to provide essential health care? Yes. We can preserve and expand food stamps, not slash the program the way Republicans want. We can make health reform work, despite right-wing efforts to undermine the program.
And we can raise the minimum wage.

The slack-jawed teenager serving french fries and the hipster grad student serving latte at your local Starbucks — we must increase their pay, says the New York Times, whereas the men and women who take an oath to serve their nation . . . “Tough choices.”

Meanwhile, the New York Times reports:

Seeking to increase pressure on McDonald’s, Wendy’s and other fast-food restaurants, organizers of a movement demanding a $15-an-hour wage for fast-food workers say they will sponsor one-day strikes in 100 cities on Thursday and protest activities in 100 additional cities. . . .
The movement, which includes the groups Fast Food Forward and Fight for 15, is part of a growing union-backed effort by low-paid workers — including many Walmart workers and workers for federal contractors — that seeks to focus attention on what the groups say are inadequate wages.
The fast-food effort is backed by the Service Employees International Union and is also demanding that restaurants allow workers to unionize without the threat of retaliation.

So there you have the New York Times worldview in a nutshell: The SEIU and the AFL-CIO, good. American troops, bad.

 

Comments

76 Responses to “Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?”

  1. MrEvilMatt
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:33 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?: In an editorial Sunday, the New Yo… http://t.co/Lm4XYl9bgy

  2. CHideout
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:33 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?: In an editorial Sunday, the New Yo… http://t.co/lJBgzqgNWw

  3. Lockestep1776
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:34 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?: In an editorial Sunday, the New Yo… http://t.co/sHAJeduNuV

  4. Resista38176897
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:34 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?: In an editorial Sunday, the New Yo… http://t.co/szS7XgIbcS

  5. Citzcom
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:34 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?: In an editorial Sunday, the New Yo… http://t.co/7fETJRHLoh

  6. jwbrown1969
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:34 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers?: In an editorial Sunday, the New Yo… http://t.co/aT8Ae0tX6l

  7. rsmccain
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:36 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  8. GlendaRoseMcGee
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:37 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  9. mmmmm9023
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:38 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  10. kjcopp
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:41 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  11. TheKurdishMamba
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 7:49 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  12. MarkRMeadows
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:00 am

    The @nytimes sinks to a new low calling for military pay cuts while arguing that fast food workers need pay hikes. http://t.co/sazWWPqUbW

  13. bet0001970
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:08 am

    You know how much your son is earning? Somewhere between $1516 and $1980 per month. A fast food worker earns about $1160 per month. The difference between your son and a fast food worker? You son is on duty 24/7, 7 days per week, 365 days per year. It doesn’t matter if he is on leave. He can be recalled and he has to return to work. So let’s break that down into hourly wage.

    FF Worker = $7.25 per hour
    Military = $2.25-$2.94 per hour

    Along with the other multitude of educational, training and physical requirements your son is mandated to perform and sustain in addition to his “regular duties”, unlike a barrista, he can face serious career consequences for any legal or financial trouble he may find himself in. The barrista gets a DUI and they have to hire an attorney. The soldier gets a DUI and they face disciplinary action and lose rank/pay. And they have to hire an attorney.

    I won’t even bother to get into the fact that your son has taken an oath to spilled his blood for that sack of shit who thinks he gets paid too much.

  14. NeoWayland
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:16 am

    We could do with fewer weapons and soldiers if our politicos stopped the empire building.

  15. sourthentrad
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:20 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  16. PensativeGuy
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:22 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  17. Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? | Dead Citizen's Rights Society
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:25 am

    […] Read the rest … […]

  18. Here Comes The Next Fast Food Strike For Higher Wages » Pirate's Cove
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:31 am

    […] the Other McCain […]

  19. talmer3
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:33 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  20. JeffS
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:34 am

    Your math is valid. Your analysis is incomplete. As per the NYT:

    Tough choices will be required in all parts of the budget. Compensation
    includes pay, retirement benefits, health care and housing allowances.

    So, you’ve failed to account for direct benefits. Medical care, commissary privileges (which are under consideration for elimination), education, and so on. These are being trimmed, and make a real difference to the troops. Do fast food workers get similar deals? I think not, but your math would be more credible with benefits factored in.

    Also, much of the DoD budget cuts focus on training and operational tempo. Ever serve when training ammo allocations are cut in favor of simply paying the troops? I have. Or fuel. Awfully hard to do a unit move when there isn’t any fuel available for training.

    Finally, equipment and vehicle maintenance tends to suck during DoD budget cuts. Buying spare parts often takes second place. Priority units might not see this particular impact, but I won’t be surprised to see motor parks with a lot of deadlined vehicles in a year or two.

    These cuts WILL be made because the brass wants (or needs) to buy new vehicles and/or weapon systems. A lot of that will be boondoggles or empire building, but they WILL impact the troops. Just because the NYT doesn’t list them doesn’t mean they aren’t on the table.

    These have a direct impact on the troops, in terms of morale. Being pissed on by the politicians (in and out of uniform) is never fun.

    Conceded, Stacy’s tone is flavored by his son just entering the service. But I speak from the voice of experience here, having joined the post-Vietnam era military, just after Ronald Reagan was elected. He faced fighting the Cold War with a military beat down after years of abuse and neglect. Remember Jimmy Carter, the loser that Reagan pushed out of office? I do, and that’s the way we are heading under Obama. The sequestration does that nicely enough. Thanks, GOP!

    Worse, actually, as Obama is making an effort to reshape the officer corps into his own image.

  21. JeffS
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:37 am

    Say rather, we could maintain a reasonable military strength if the politicos (in and out of uniform) stopped the empire building.

  22. Quartermaster
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:40 am

    Where we are right now is not reasonable. We are a target and anyone that thinks we can cut things with with an ax like we are now is deluded. Generally, however, when morality is sinking into the septic tank, the cultural leaders call for cuts and they probably won’t have the moral strength among the populace to man the ramparts anyway. It happened to Rome, and we aren’t immune either.

  23. waynemeadows
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:45 am

    RT @MarkRMeadows: The @nytimes sinks to a new low calling for military pay cuts while arguing that fast food workers need pay hikes. http:/…

  24. Josh_Painter
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:47 am

    RT @smitty_one_each: TOM Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/RG1prWtnF9 #TCOT

  25. screwtape1a12
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:58 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  26. Shutterbugfun
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 8:59 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  27. bet0001970
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:01 am

    Sure, factor in those benefits and “assume” you can actually get a military member up to the minimum wage level of $7.25 per hour. Now they want to cut those benefits and pay further down.

    You can make the argument that fast food workers don’t get the benefits that military members get, but I’ve already made the argument that those workers don’t earn them either. They don’t sign up to risk their lives, spill their blood or go to war. They don’t stress out and injure their bodies for years on end to meet the physical requirements of the military. (I can do this all day)

    Part of the deal that we make with a certain segment of the population (fire, police and military) is that if they agree to risk their lives to protect and serve and take care of society, we will take care of them. Now everyone believes they are entitled to that special treatment without the risks associated with those jobs.

  28. rmnixondeceased
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:02 am

    I agree with you Bets. If the average American, in their everyday job (that is their safe, non-life threatening work place) were asked, nay, required to live at their job-site (as the non-married junior ranks are), be available 24/7, leave for long periods of time with short notice (deployments), spend up to a week at a time in the field living in tents (if they’re lucky), live under a more stringent set of laws (UCMJ) that curtail many rights and be shit upon by the liberals everyday. Would they willingly do so for the crap wages we pay our troops? HELLS NO! They would demand pay commiserate with their perceived worth, of course!
    What a bunch of selfish, amoral, cowardly ingrates!

  29. NYT: Cut Military Pay, Raise Minimum Wage For Fast Food Workers & Retail Clerks | The Lonely Conservative
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:03 am

    […] On Sunday the New York Times ran an editorial arguing that we should cut the pay of US troops. The Other McCain summed it up: […]

  30. wjjhoge
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:07 am

    RT @rsmccain: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/Ga9elUTZEU #tcot

  31. JeffS
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:21 am

    No argument. You just don’t paint the full picture — our troops get screwed multiple ways. We ask they serve and sacrifice, but give them crap equipment and suboptimal training to do so. That ignores the post-service treatment (or lack thereof).

    This is not supporting the troops.

  32. JeffS
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:24 am

    I didn’t say we have anything reasonable right now. I said “we could maintain a reasonable military strength”. Re-building the military is an entirely different matter.

  33. Sandstorm1776
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 9:30 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/o96Qj9354C

  34. bet0001970
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 10:10 am

    I could accuse you of not painting a full picture as well. But the truth is, a full picture of this cannot be painted. So continuing to accuse me of not telling the whole story is somewhat ridiculous.

    We’re talking basic pay. If we included benefits, which some minimum wage earners ARE offered, then we would be calculating this all damn month. And frankly, it’s something that can’t be done. It’s an unknown. Military benefits are standard, but civilian benefits are different for each job. So I offered the only comparison that could be known.

    The fact is, military benefits would not make up the deficit between base pay and civilian minimum wage. And with all due respect, this argument has been made before and it tanks every time. The military is grossly underpaid in comparison to civilian counterpart jobs. Which I might add, do NOT fall under minimum wage line work. I made the comparison for the purposes of the NYT’s bullshit editorials. And I think you knew that.

  35. WillProfit1
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 10:14 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/8lYYqbOHVU

  36. danielprofit
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 10:16 am

    RT @WillProfit1: Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/8lYYqbOHVU

  37. McKinleyPitts
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 10:27 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/RzZpyNVriT

  38. CurtisHebert
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 11:34 am

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/8hVdAwikeF

  39. Nan
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 12:09 pm

    One of my college classmates was married to an airman. They had one child and were on foodstamps because his wages were so low and she was in school and taking care of their daughter.

  40. Church_On_F1
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 12:41 pm

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? http://t.co/6HRcNuqz57

  41. MNHawk
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:05 pm

    An army private makes $1,467 per month. Assuming only 40 hours per week, that comes out to $8.47 per hour.

  42. The guy who makes their coffee is worth more than the guy who protects their freedom . . . | The First Street Journal.
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:41 pm

    […] Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? Posted on | December 2, 2013 | 7 Comments […]

  43. Dana_TFSJ
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:46 pm

    #nytimes thinks soldiers paid 2 much; baristi paid 2 little http://t.co/Gy1lR4ny3b http://t.co/Nzdwzez9AX @rsmccain Gotta have their lattes!

  44. rsmccain
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:47 pm

    RT @Dana_TFSJ: #nytimes thinks soldiers paid 2 much; baristi paid 2 little http://t.co/Gy1lR4ny3b http://t.co/Nzdwzez9AX @rsmccain Gotta ha…

  45. BobBelvedere
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:48 pm

    RT @Dana_TFSJ: #nytimes thinks soldiers paid 2 much; baristi paid 2 little http://t.co/Gy1lR4ny3b http://t.co/Nzdwzez9AX @rsmccain Gotta ha…

  46. paracaidista505
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:50 pm

    RT @Dana_TFSJ: #nytimes thinks soldiers paid 2 much; baristi paid 2 little http://t.co/Gy1lR4ny3b http://t.co/Nzdwzez9AX @rsmccain Gotta ha…

  47. JimPolk
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 1:52 pm

    RT @Dana_TFSJ: #nytimes thinks soldiers paid 2 much; baristi paid 2 little http://t.co/Gy1lR4ny3b http://t.co/Nzdwzez9AX @rsmccain Gotta ha…

  48. bartmckinley
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 2:14 pm

    Ask NY Times Who Deserves More Pay: America’s Troops or Fast-Food Workers? Another Obama False Choice. http://t.co/LfETftovNc

  49. Steve Skubinna
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 2:30 pm

    Yeah, but ask any lefty and you’ll hear that the troops are:

    a) ignorant violent racist hicks who only joined to kill brown people, and;

    b) impoverished minorities inveighed into enlisting by unscrupulous recruiters and sent off to fight rich white men’s wars for oil. By killing brown people.

    So progs can have it both ways. Sneer at the troops as low brow knuckle draggers while simultaneously infantilizing them as dead enders, last chancers, and no hopers cynically manipulated by The System.

    The reality is that in the end, nobody enlists just for the money. Spout all the cliches about a Great Way of Life! or Not a Job, An Adventure! or Earn Credits For College! or Learn Valuable Skills! and it comes down to service, and risk, and putting something above self.

    And that last one is the real reason, I suspect, why most progressives despise the troops. The tiny glimmer of selflessness detectable in the meanest Gomer Pyle or Radar O’Reilly shames them, even if they can’t quote Doctor Johnson on hot having been a soldier, or not having been at sea.

  50. Steve Skubinna
    December 2nd, 2013 @ 2:42 pm

    I’m not going to bother trying to count how many Christmases and Thanksgivings I’ve spent away from home and family the past 35 years. There’s no way to calculate what risks I’ve faced on a daily basis that nobody who hasn’t been there can even understand (not speaking of combat, just working the flight deck or a replenishment rig at sea or launching a RHIB or motor whaleboat at night in crappy weather because somebody went over the side).

    You don’t even speak of those things to people who haven’t been there, and you don’t bring them up in hopes of a mealy mouthed “thank you for your service!” You know almost instantly who will respect your choices, and who will hold you in contempt for them, and you don’t do what you do for either one. You make your choice, and you live that choice for as long as you decide, and your reasons are not theirs.

    You see Jack Nicholson holler “You can’t handle the truth” in a cliche of what progressives think you are and shrug.

    So I suppose what I’m saying here, in my long winded way, is the day I look to the likes of the NYT for affirmation is the day I piss on my own grave, and the that of my father, and those of my comrades. None of the coastal elites matter, and nothing they say matters. Their world is not mine, I don’t force my way into theirs, and neither do I insist that they understand or even respect mine.