The Other McCain

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Rape Culture Means: Guys, Do Not Have Sex With Jordan Bosiljevac (Updated)

Posted on | May 2, 2015 | 147 Comments

Jordan Bosiljevac is a deeply confused sophomore at Claremont McKenna College (annual tuition $47,395) and, like every other college girl, she’s got an opinion about rape culture:

Why Yes Can Mean No
It started with “consent is sexy.” But, of course, there was no point in that—it was like saying rape is just bad sex, instead of a felony. Then there was “consent is mandatory.” It was much better, reminding us that sex is consensual, and everything else is rape. But then there was me, after a party, in a man’s dorm room. And there was “is this ok?” If we are being legal about this, I said ‘yes’ — no coercion, no imminent threat of violence, no inebriation (well, not a lot, anyway). But what I want to talk about is what happened before I said yes, who taught me to say yes, why I thought it was better to say yes, and why I really meant ‘no.’ . . .

(Pause, dear reader, to imagine yourself in the position of the male Claremont McKenna College student who is the other half of this story. You hooked up with Jordan Bosiljevac after a party, and now she’s going to tell everyone who reads the student newspaper why, in fact, she really didn’t want to hook up with you.)

Depending on who you are, it might sound ridiculous: why would anyone ever say yes when they meant no? Honesty is important to any relationship — sexual or otherwise. Besides, the legal definition of rape in the State of California states “rape is an act of sexual intercourse when a person is incapable of” . . .
Honestly, there’s a lot more to it than that for me. At five, relatives used to kiss my cheeks even as I winced and turned away. At the tender age of twelve, I was taught that my bra straps and thighs deserved detention because they distracted boys at school. At sixteen, my boyfriend assured me that most girls liked this — I just needed to relax. So at 20, in someone’s room after a party, ‘no’ was scary and unfamiliar to me. These incidents, unfortunately, are not unique to me. In discussing this experience with friends, we coined the term “raped by rape culture” to describe what it was like to say yes, coerced by the culture that had raised us and the systems of power that worked on us, and to still want ‘no.’ Sometimes, for me, there was obligation from already having gone back to someone’s room, not wanting to ruin a good friendship, loneliness, worry that no one else would ever be interested, a fear that if I did say no, they might not stop, the influence of alcohol, and an understanding that hookups are “supposed” to be fun.

She was “coerced by the culture” and oppressed by “the systems of power,” you see. That dude she hooked up with after the party might have thought she was consenting to have sex with him when, in fact, he was “culture” and raped her. Or something like that.

The idea that women are “coerced by culture” into having sex with men is, of course, consistent with feminist Professor Marilyn Frye’s assertion that “most women have to be coerced into heterosexuality.” In other words, women do not actually want to have sex with men. Instead, because female “subordination is the basis of male power,” as Professor Charlotte Bunch explained, heterosexuality for women means “submission to personal oppression.” Having sex with men, feminist theory teaches, is part of the “socialized behavior instruction” of “the unnatural, yet universal roles patriarchy has assigned” to women. As lesbian feminist Adrienne Rich explained, “male power manifests itself . . . as enforcing heterosexuality on women,” so that “for women heterosexuality” is “imposed . . . and maintained by force.”

Whether or not Jordan Bosiljevac has learned any of that Advanced Feminist Logic™ at Claremont McKenna College, she clearly has grasped the core feminist doctrine that her entire life has been a traumatic experience of oppression. “Feminist consciousness is consciousness of victimization . . . to come to see oneself as a victim,” as Professor Sandra Lee Bartky has explained. Women’s oppression under patriarchy is so pervasive, according to feminist theory, that women cannot be sure that their ideas, beliefs and emotions are their own. Instead, feminism teaches women that they have been indoctrinated by a system of male supremacy, brainwashed into believing that having sex with men is “natural.” Feminist “rape culture” discourse is not about protecting women from rape; it’s about convincing them that any sexual activity with men can be considered rape, because how can any female (being a victim of male oppression) be able to freely “consent” to sex with her oppressor? This seems to be what Jordan Bosiljevac is trying to tell us:

For me, and many others like me, consent isn’t easy. Yes doesn’t always mean yes, and we misplaced ‘no’ several years ago. This experience isn’t random, but disproportionately affects oppressed communities. Consent is a privilege, and it was built for wealthy, heterosexual, cis, white, western, able-bodied masculinity. . . .
When you’re poor, disabled, queer, non-white, trans, or feminine, ‘no’ isn’t for you. . . . for me, finding ‘no’ is a process, consent is elusive, and sometimes, even when people don’t mean to — they hurt me.

Translation: Guys, do not have sex with Jordan Bosiljevac, ever.

She cannot authentically say “yes,” because “consent is elusive” and, while she is willing to stipulate consent as a hypothetical possibility, any male who would even think about having sex with Jordan Bosiljevac is as crazy as she is.

UPDATE: Thanks to the commenter who pointed out that, in another article at the Claremont McKenna Forum, Jordan Bosiljevac labels herself “a brown woman of gay parents,” and describes “third grade me, starting elementary school with more wealthy white children than I’d ever seen in my whole life”:

On the first day I entered this alien planet via my mothers’ red van — yes, that’s two moms that both came to drop me off. As if gay moms in an old, unfashionable van weren’t enough, I was one of a few children of color at my school. I had no friends, a lot of whispers about my strange family situation, and sudden regret for all the time I’d spent outside that past summer. Basically, I felt like a mess.

Well, “the personal is the political,” as Women’s Liberation pioneer Carol Hanisch famously proclaimed, and this sort of identity-based narrative approach to politics — i.e., offering one’s personal biography as the justification of a radical ideology — has multiple consequences. Forming any kind of coherent movement becomes difficult because everyone has an unlimited psychological investment in the movement, and must fight to make the movement reflective of their own identity. This was the history of Women’s Liberation in a nutshell, familiar to anyone who has read Alice Echols’ Daring to Be Bad or Susan Brownmiller’s In Our Time.

From its beginning amid the radical New Left of the 1960s, the modern feminist movement was crippled by its tendency to attract fanatical ax-grinders who were using politics as a means of addressing their own narrow personal grievances against men, against Judeo-Christian morality, against society in general. The undeniable fact that many of the leading activists in the Women’s Liberation movement were lesbians should have been a warning to any woman who joined the movement in expectation of advancing a reform agenda aimed at the everyday concerns of the typical woman’s life. When it became apparent that some of the movement’s most vocal spokeswomen (including both Kate Millett and Shulamith Firestone) were quite literally psychotic, this should have prompted other feminists to reconsider their own basic principles.

Here we are, then, in the 21st century and the 20-year-old daughter of a lesbian couple finds that her search for happiness is fraught with perils and disappointments she can only analyze through a feminist lens. She has no other frame of reference and yet, as I have said, if feminism is the cause of your problem, the solution to your problem is not “more feminism.” This puts someone like Jordan Bosiljevac into a painful dilemma, for if she were somehow to re-examine her principles and discover traditionalism, she would be compelled to reject her own “family values.” Therefore it is much more likely that she will instead double-down on feminism, embracing an even more radical hostility to human nature.

This kind of reaction to feminism’s failure is exactly what we are witnessing everywhere now. A new book, Freedom Fallacy: The Limits of Liberal Feminism, edited by a pair of Australian feminists, collects essays advocating a renewed radicalism. The titles of these essays reveal a totalitarian suspicion of personal liberty (e.g., “Entitled to Be Free: Exposing the Limits of Choice”), a sense of a radical indignation (e.g., “The Illusion of Progress: A Betrayal of Women from Both Ends of the Political Spectrum”), and an underlying anti-heterosexual hostility toward men (e.g., “The Oppression That Dare Not Speak Its Name? Silences Around Heterosexuality in Contemporary Feminism”). These attitudes are surprising only to those who have not studied feminist gender theory and the history of the movement. (My book Sex Trouble provides a helpful introduction.) Ultimately, the movement aims to bring about the destruction of civilization as we know it, annihilating the traditional married family as a normative institution, and bringing about an “equality” of the sexes by the imposition of androgyny, i.e., “the abolition of gender.” If anyone asks where “the pursuit of happiness” fits into this radical vision, the answer is that feminists consider “happiness” a myth, a social construct of the heteronormative patriarchy.

BTW, as of May 5, it’s National Offend a Feminist Week. You can celebrate by being as happy as possible. Feminists hate happiness.




 

Comments

147 Responses to “Rape Culture Means: Guys, Do Not Have Sex With Jordan Bosiljevac (Updated)”

  1. Daniel Freeman
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 1:26 pm

    It never ceases to amaze me how feminists can be so chauvinistic: while they like women more than men, they don’t even respect women enough to credit them with personal agency.

    No wonder they’re so statist! Ashe Schow’s modest proposal really is the logical conclusion of their beliefs.

  2. TimeandtheRani
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 1:49 pm

    This really is one of the worst things I’ve seen you post about, and that’s saying something. What a tremendous insult to actual rape victims her fake rape story is. Genuinely angering. I mean how *dare* she? I’m aghast that more women aren’t disgusted with such talk.

  3. OrangeEnt
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 1:56 pm

    These poor, poor women!!! The trials and tribulations of life are too much for them. Sayyyy……. howse about staying in your father’s house until you’re married, maybe go out only with a male relative protecting you, and maybe wear a biiiiig black bag to keep evil oppressive heteronormative patriarchial men from looking at you and seeing uncovered meat. There feminists! I just solved your life problems. Please send money….

  4. RS
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 2:11 pm

    This dovetails with your Emma Sulkowicz post wherein she decries requiring “proof,” i.e. evidence of rape. You’ll recall she claims such requirements invalidate “other types of ‘knowledge.'” In reality, these people are seeking to establish parallel realities: one for male/female interpersonal sexual relationships and one for everything else. In the former, she coyly asserts she has no control over her actions because of some nefarious social pressure.

    Congratulations to her! She has admitted she is incapable of having any dealing normally associated with being an adult and a free agent. If she has no control over her actions, she is by definition legally incompetent and should have a legal guardian for her person and conservator for her estate appointed immediately. Forget sex. You want to enter into a business deal with this person? Hire her to do X in exchange for a salary? Give her a credit card? Any one of those decisions can be said to be the result of social pressure.

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  6. AwD
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 2:24 pm

    In short, Jordan has just made a very good case for why she should be immediately expelled. After all, she cannot consent to attend college if “social pressure” is enough to render her incapable of saying “no”!

  7. darleenclick
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 2:27 pm

    She should just don a burka as a signal to all males that she is off-limits at all times.

    Thus explains again why western apologists for Islam live on the Left.

  8. BSR
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:14 pm

    I had a few thoughts on this. The first is that on some measures she is right. The feminists of the 60s and going forward have tried to pressure women to say ‘yes’ because that’s part of women’s ‘liberation’. It used to be perfectly sociably acceptable for most women to say ‘no’ and that didn’t necessarily end all chances of a relationship with a certain beau. Now, since women are supposed to like sex just as much as men, there is a sort of societal or peer pressure to say ‘yes’ instead.

    This does not change the fact that she is a weak woman for caving to peer pressure and not being true to herself and what she really wants for herself. Young college-aged women take on a burden when they have sex. My personal experience is that women are the ones who usually have to put the brakes on and make sure that it’s ‘safe’ sex and she’s not going to be dropping out of school in 9 months with a new kid so losing the casual sex war was really not that good for women in the larger picture. This does not change the fact that “if feminism is your problem, more feminism won’t fix it.”

    Also, she needs to own the decision she made. If she said ‘yes’ when she really meant ‘no’ she needs to accept that she erred _learn from her mistake_ and move on. Only a child dwells on the past like that and expects other people to fix their problems. When I was young and I just started dating I made some terrible mistakes too. I didn’t blame the world for my mistakes though, I learned and moved on so that I wouldn’t make the same mistakes again. Instead of whining about rape culture she should be writing about how uncomfortable she was with not being true to herself and explained to other young women how she overcame her failure to be honest and made herself a better person. It’s clear to me that the only person in her ‘story’ who is perpetuating rape culture is her.

  9. Rape Culture Means: Guys, Do Not Have Sex With Jordan Bosiljevac | Living in Anglo-America
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:16 pm
  10. jakee308
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:19 pm

    Since about 23, I’ve assumed that:
    a) women don’t know what they want but if you want it, they don’t
    b) if they say anything, they mean the opposite, unless it’s in your favor and then they meant the other thing.
    c) what they say is no what they mean but you better know what they really mean or your being mean or something.
    d) typical response to clarification: “what do you mean you don’t know what I mean? Any body knows what I meant.”

    then when they started getting legal about everything, I quit and ever since have had a relatively stress free or at least it’s stress that I created or couldn’t stop on my own.

    It’s lonely but safe.

  11. Prime Director
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:24 pm

    When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
    “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
    “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – – that’s all.”

  12. Bob Belvedere
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:26 pm

    1975: ‘The Devil made me do it!’

    2015: ‘I was coerced by the culture!!!’

  13. BSR
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:29 pm

    It’s feminists, not some mythical ‘patriarchy’ who’ve created a stigma around saying ‘no’. The media, for years has been making women look frigid or stuck up if they’re just looking out for themselves.

    I was talking to some other women once about what to tell a young girl about sex in high school because a parent’s advice is critical. You have to talk to your kids about this stuff because you really don’t know what they’re going to hear about in school and the parents will give them advice that will hopefully lead to their success at finding a mate, getting married and having kids of their own someday.

    This other woman said that she told her daughter not to do it. The first time she had sex it was gross, sweaty, uncomfortable and she didn’t enjoy it at all. I expressed that I kind of agreed with her. I really don’t know any women who actually enjoyed their first time. And if you give your daughter a dose of reality about that it’s easier to make it clear to her that it’s better to wait for someone who really cares about her and not some random drunken hook-up. The media glamorizes sex and hooking-up such that it can be difficult to pierce through that allure but sometimes frank honesty from someone who loves you is worth a hundred stupid college movies.

    It makes me wonder what this girl’s parents must have told her about sex. My dad used to tell me I couldn’t date until I was 20. I took him to heart and I really didn’t date until I was 20. Where were her parents in teaching her not to hook up with random drunk boys? Maybe some kind words from them could have spared her this childish attitude. Laissez-faire parenting when it comes to really teaching kids about what sex is about is part of this too.

  14. concern00
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:33 pm

    I’m confused. I swear that feminism used to be about equality or something for women in general. Now all I’m reading about are mentally ill women who seem to think we should all lower ourselves to their level of mental imbalance. Insecurity, thy name is womyn.

  15. DeadMessenger
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 3:58 pm

    AND they’re inconsistent and don’t even respect themselves (so how can they respect others?)

    For instance, Miss Jordan says this: “At five, relatives used to kiss my cheeks even as I winced and turned away.

    But when those same relatives handed her a nice check for her graduation, odds are, she took it.

    So, let’s sum it up: she doesn’t like her relatives enough to show them genuine affection, and feels victimized by them. Then, she tskes money from them. Isn’t she kind of a prostitute, then?

    Just the sort of muddled thinking (if you can call it that) and behavior (no sense of obligation) that would lead to statism, since this is the sort of imbecile that statists entice.

  16. Phil_McG
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:22 pm

    “Why Yes Can Mean No” – translation: I’m a crazy bitch who will falsely accuse you of rape. Vote Hillary!

  17. Phil_McG
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:24 pm

    Stop raping her with your white cishet Christofascist logic.

  18. Lamprotatia
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:27 pm

    So say a conservative Christian parent had read more than enough of these stories and decided she was not going to go into debt to send her kids off to the colleges where this crap is apparently seen as normal. What should that parent encourage her kids to do instead? Trades? Distance learning? I honestly want to know. Because no way am I putting my secure retirement on the line, or encouraging my kids to mortgage their future, to go get indoctrinated, infected, abused, and ruined by one of these wacked out establishments.

  19. arcadius
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:27 pm

    So if yes can sometimes mean no, then can no sometimes mean yes?

  20. RichFader
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:35 pm

    I think that’s already been stated as a universal axiom: “Don’t have sex with crazy.”

  21. Phil_McG
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:38 pm

    No does often mean “yes”. For example, “no” can mean:

    “Yes, but I want you to ravish me like a caveman!”

    “Yes, but I’m saying ‘no’ because I want to pretend I’m not easy to bed!”

    “Yes, but I love teasing you, you big lug!”

    Everything feminists say is bullshit, including “consent is sexy”.

    Women don’t find consent sexy. Twilight and 50 Shades Of Grey and Gone With The Wind weren’t smash-hit successes with women because they hate the idea of handsome, dominant men lusting after them.

  22. Lamprotatia
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:39 pm

    Having any self-respect and sense of pride in your chastity and virtue is “slut-shaming,” it’s true. They say they aren’t about coercing women into being sexually promiscuous but they are lying. Every aspect of feminist culture pushes sexual acting out and shames and berates women who opt out of that, and defines us as the enemy.

  23. GUEST
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:48 pm

    This is why the Biblical way is the way to go. Only have sex within marriage and don’t marry crazy.

  24. darleenclick
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 4:53 pm

    whatever it takes to avoid personal responsibility

  25. Daniel Freeman
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:06 pm

    Not to mention, I just realized that she’s sexualizing someone kissing a relative’s squirmy 5 year-old child on the cheek.

  26. TimeandtheRani
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:09 pm

    Try and remember that as influential and crazy as these radical feminists are, it’s still a small percentage of women. Luckily, feminism is still a dirty word to many, many women.

  27. Mike G.
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:20 pm

    There is nothing wrong with the trades. Many people have made a good living “working” for a living, sometimes more than if they had a BS.

    But if your kid(s) really want a college education, there is Hillsdale College, Liberty University, Bob Jones University, ect.

  28. Art Deco
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:22 pm

    You remember the exchange from As Good As It Gets?

    Q: How do you write women so well?

    Mel Udall: Easy. I think of a man. Then I remove reason and accountability.

    I’ll pass on the ‘reason’ part, but the ‘accountability’ part is one I’ve had some experience with in my own household. That is, there are women who come of age with a very underdeveloped sense of agency. I did this incorporates a mental operation they do not do well. The one I knew best was confused until her death at age 80. It has both a cognitive aspect and a moral aspect, the latter manifest in an indignation you could ever hold them responsible for anything. There is a class of men who readily throw rubbing alcohol on this particular fire through various and sundry evasions and stratagems, all of which amount to excusing bad behavior or reapportioning it to proximate men. You want a gross example, read about the Mary Winkler case in Tennessee.

    One way of looking at this woman is to see her as abnormally articulate, but drawing on the raw material of many a domestic argument and larding it with the trumpery of social-theory-speak.

  29. Julie Pascal
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:22 pm

    Most students at most schools are pretty normal. Most don’t even come in contact with the crazy stuff. Most schools have active faith communities.

    And….

    If they’re not living in a dorm on the other side of the state, it’s probably going to be okay.

  30. Julie Pascal
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:33 pm

    You know what the oppressive horrible patriarchy gave you? A religion that TAUGHT YOU TO SAY NO.

    The people who stole her ability to say “no” were the feminists, the “women can have meaningless sex without harm” sorts, the “hookups are fun, what’s wrong with you?” sorts.

    The Patriarchy gave you a huge honking NO crutch… and you tossed it in the trash.

  31. Finrod Felagund
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 5:44 pm

    A friend of mine puts it as “don’t stick your dick in crazy”.

  32. Squid Hunt
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 6:14 pm

    You know what’s strange? Women that were actually taught modesty and it took, never seem to have these issues with rape culture. Because they see men as who they are: different. And they respect it. They don’t flaunt their sexuality and then have to make up stories to shift blame and assuage their guilt. Maybe if she’d focused on her bra straps and not on what’s in her boyfriend’s pants, she wouldn’t have these problems. You can’t have it both ways.

  33. Squid Hunt
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 6:26 pm

    My recommendation is keep them home for school as long as possible. Atleast through high school. Teach them to work early in their teens. And if they want to go to college, let them pay their own way. You can support them and let them stay at your house or whatever, but they’ll have much less time for stupid classes if they’re burning their own cash to be there.

  34. Julie Pascal
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 6:53 pm

    We were told over and over and over… that if a guy broke up with you because you wouldn’t have sex with him, that he didn’t like YOU and you were better off without him.

    Of course that worked better when you could believe that a majority of other girls were also saying no.

  35. Anon Imus
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:28 pm

    I has got to be tough to be on campus these days. Really, really tough! Wasn’t everything so much simpler when it was just, “yes” or “no” or “do you have AIDS?”

    I think I would be celibate if I were in school these days. There is just WAY too much crazy going on.

    Between screaming about “rape” and yelling at random conservative speakers or movies or hating Israel, when to these kids have time to learn anything?

  36. RichFader
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:28 pm

    Heh. I was trying to keep it clean.

  37. Jason Lee
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:38 pm

    Or, better yet, the patriarchy gave you a dad with a shotgun.

  38. RS
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:39 pm

    It is possible to find colleges and universities where this stuff has not taken hold. It requires research. I chose 5 colleges/universities for my two elder kids and told them, I’ll help you, if you go to one of these. Otherwise, you’re on your own. My third is currently attending a protestant parochial H.S., as did his siblings. I’m sure you’ve reared them well. As long as they pay attention to their associations, they’ll be OK.

  39. Dianna Deeley
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:53 pm

    If it’s unnatural, how come it’s universal?

  40. Fail Burton
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:53 pm

    One can only imagine the pre-nuptial agreement for anyone dumb enough to marry this bozo. That man will never be safe, not as long as he lives. No one is safe who even talks to this cretin, because anything can be anything in a kingdom of one with its own private constitution only she understands and is otherwise known as “casserole surprise.”

  41. Fail Burton
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 7:56 pm

    Notice how alcohol abuse is in 100% of these “feminist” narratives?

  42. Zohydro
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 8:14 pm

    Sometimes, their lips say ‘no’, but their eyes say ‘yes, YES’!

  43. Zohydro
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 8:16 pm

    Not dipping one’s pen in the company ink is good advice too…

  44. robertstacymccain
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 8:21 pm

    The “underdeveloped sense of agency” is very close to hitting the nail on the head.

  45. Zohydro
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 8:23 pm

    I think 2A should give them a .38 in their purses, but I’d be wrong about that, too…

  46. Shawn Smith
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 8:25 pm

    PC thought police have made it clear that shaming a woman for being promiscuous is strictly forbidden. Shaming a woman for not having sex, however, appears to be just fine. I’ve never heard a leftist scold for “virgin-shaming”. The implications of this are clear. There is a culture pressuring girls into “yes”, and it was absolutely built by the Left, including feminists, not by Christians. But she’s too indocrinated to ever understand this by reason. Revelation from God is her only hope at this point, which on our side means prayer.

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  48. RS
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 9:10 pm

    Certainly the paradox of their philosophical position is lost upon them. In there ideal world, women would have complete sexual license, to behave as they wish, but there would be no males making any attempts to complete the transaction, because they’re wary of stepping on some hidden feminist trip wire.

    Feminism is trying to put the genie back in the bottle with the whole “rape culture” gambit. In other words, they wish to turn courtship into the relational equivalent of Calvinball. It won’t work. There are still too many women who want a marriage and a family.

  49. Matt_SE
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 9:30 pm

    The natural result of this thinking is that nobody, EVER, is capable of consent. Who can know if they’re giving consent as an individual, or if it is the evil work of society?
    If this thinking is taken seriously, you might as well start living in grass huts again.

  50. Matt_SE
    May 2nd, 2015 @ 9:38 pm

    NO! (yes?)