One Wonders If Salon Is Beamed From Another Planet

Posted on | August 20, 2010 | 40 Comments

by Smitty

Elon James White, “Defending Park51, attacking Dr. Laura“:

The common thread between condemning Dr. Laura and defending Park51 is the idea that the persecuted should be protected.

Dr. Laura, in my opinion, should release a record of gangsta rap covers, so that she can use the word which sorts between ‘bigger’ and ‘rigger’ at very high frequency and then be referred to as an ‘artist’.

Past that, though, what does White possibly mean by this use of ‘persecuted’, ‘protected’, and the Ground Zero Mosque (Park 51)? It seems that White may have unexpected-ly progress-ed to an illegal marriage of terms here. Rational people may have thought that ramming a plane into a building and killing nearly 3,000 people would count as an extreme, even ultimate, form of persecution, and that the wishes of the survivors and locals should count for something in deciding the who/what/where/when/why/how that they should/shouldn’t be remembered.

Ace of Spades, as usual, is spot on (Disclaimer: I don’t care about the Stars and Bars in South Carolia):

Is it time to return the Stars and Bars to the South Carolina State House?

I ask because I thought the rule was that an understandable revulsion to the memory of an emotionally-wounding time was enough to win out over a noisy, self-promoting group’s determination to advertise its views in a prominent, highly-symbolic area… but now I find that’s not so true, not so true.

So — Confederate flag at the SC statehouse again?

Because the people flying the flag there say they too have good, non-objectionable motivations for doing so — a reminder of heritage, honoring the dead, etc., etc. But previously we have shown skepticism towards their claimed motivations, and also decided their motivations were irrelevant — it wouldn’t even matter, we decided, if their motives were pure; the important thing was the Confederate flag was too hurtful to have near the people’s house of government.

Again, so I now find out this isn’t the rule anymore.

So if it’s not the rule anymore: Why can’t we have the Confederate flag at the SC statehouse?

Repeat: I’m not interested in seeing the Stars and Bars in South Carolina again. However, it’s worth putting to these clowns on the Left, just for the sad spectacle of their mental gymnastics.

Only in the mind of a modern Liberal can a difference which makes no difference amount to a big difference.

Update: Ace of Spades trots out the flaming skull for the audio tapes of that dovish imam. It’s not like the Left really had significant credibility remaining to destroy.

Category: Ace of Spades, Blogging

Comments

40 Responses to “One Wonders If Salon Is Beamed From Another Planet”

Dave C
August 21st, 2010 @ 2:36 am

Not just liberals but a handful of certain libertarians as well are bending over backwards to show ‘Tolerance’ about the GZM.
Dave C
August 20th, 2010 @ 10:36 pm

Not just liberals but a handful of certain libertarians as well are bending over backwards to show ‘Tolerance’ about the GZM.
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 2:58 am

Some of the commentators at The Agitator make me sad about the future of this country. If libertarians are so clueless, we are going to be truly fucked.
Joe
August 20th, 2010 @ 10:58 pm

Some of the commentators at The Agitator make me sad about the future of this country. If libertarians are so clueless, we are going to be truly fucked.
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 3:30 am

And I cannot believe Rush endorsed this guy.

To steal from Olbermann, Patty Murray is one of the worse Senators evah. So if Dino Rossi has a chance of beating her in Washington State, what the hell is wrong with Kurt Diedier.

This is like a potential Massachusetts Brown victory. Actually it would be bigger because Murray is a Democratic Party leader and Washington is a mostly blue state. And Dino Rossi is twice as conservative as Brown.

And this idiot may help to blow it.
Joe
August 20th, 2010 @ 11:30 pm

And I cannot believe Rush endorsed this guy.

To steal from Olbermann, Patty Murray is one of the worse Senators evah. So if Dino Rossi has a chance of beating her in Washington State, what the hell is wrong with Kurt Diedier.

This is like a potential Massachusetts Brown victory. Actually it would be bigger because Murray is a Democratic Party leader and Washington is a mostly blue state. And Dino Rossi is twice as conservative as Brown.

And this idiot may help to blow it.
young4eyes
August 21st, 2010 @ 3:32 am

Soooo lame. It makes me wonder why Conservitards are so enamored of Ace.
First, you would have to equate a structure that is NOT a mosque, with a symbol( a flag) that represents an ideology.
Second, you would have to equate a religion( Islam) with an act of terrorism.
Now, that you folks have decided to equate a religion with terrorism is a foregone conclusion. That you are wrong in doing so isn’t. It’s the easy way out. It is no different than those idiots overseas burning the American flag because of differences in American policy, as if all Americans were in agreement about said policy.
The confederate flag explicitly represents an idea and a dark period in our history. It stands for a philosophy about how one group of people feels it is allowed to behave towards another.
Islam is a religious philosophy.As such, it has been used by some to justify acts of terrorism. All religions have been hijacked at one point or another by groups of zealots.It’s the nature of religion.
The fatal flaw in this whole discussion is that you have made a conscious decision to equate Islam with terrorism. I guess one could also equate Christianity with slavery if one chose to do so, seeing as Christians were the main proprietors of the slave trade.
But that would be stupid, wouldn’t it?
So Ace, go ahead and fly your flag, you myopic douchenozzle.
For me, the Confederate flag is a reminder of when right defeated wrong, and the glorious ass-whoopin that the South sufferd at the hands of the North.
young4eyes
August 20th, 2010 @ 11:32 pm

Soooo lame. It makes me wonder why Conservitards are so enamored of Ace.
First, you would have to equate a structure that is NOT a mosque, with a symbol( a flag) that represents an ideology.
Second, you would have to equate a religion( Islam) with an act of terrorism.
Now, that you folks have decided to equate a religion with terrorism is a foregone conclusion. That you are wrong in doing so isn’t. It’s the easy way out. It is no different than those idiots overseas burning the American flag because of differences in American policy, as if all Americans were in agreement about said policy.
The confederate flag explicitly represents an idea and a dark period in our history. It stands for a philosophy about how one group of people feels it is allowed to behave towards another.
Islam is a religious philosophy.As such, it has been used by some to justify acts of terrorism. All religions have been hijacked at one point or another by groups of zealots.It’s the nature of religion.
The fatal flaw in this whole discussion is that you have made a conscious decision to equate Islam with terrorism. I guess one could also equate Christianity with slavery if one chose to do so, seeing as Christians were the main proprietors of the slave trade.
But that would be stupid, wouldn’t it?
So Ace, go ahead and fly your flag, you myopic douchenozzle.
For me, the Confederate flag is a reminder of when right defeated wrong, and the glorious ass-whoopin that the South sufferd at the hands of the North.
smitty
August 21st, 2010 @ 3:38 am

@Y4E,
I agree substantially with your arguments.
However, the point Ace is making, and you either miss or are sidestepping, is this:
Substantial numbers of people were really, really bothered by the symbolism involved, and with good reason. The people of SC, irrespective of their right to use the First Amendment to be a bunch of jacknuts, backed down.
Oh, and these audiotapes, if they’re half as intense as they’re being touted (I haven’t set aside 13 hours to go over them, assuming they’re in English) could have the American Left making Neville Chamberlain seem a muscular hawk.
smitty
August 20th, 2010 @ 11:38 pm

@Y4E,
I agree substantially with your arguments.
However, the point Ace is making, and you either miss or are sidestepping, is this:
Substantial numbers of people were really, really bothered by the symbolism involved, and with good reason. The people of SC, irrespective of their right to use the First Amendment to be a bunch of jacknuts, backed down.
Oh, and these audiotapes, if they’re half as intense as they’re being touted (I haven’t set aside 13 hours to go over them, assuming they’re in English) could have the American Left making Neville Chamberlain seem a muscular hawk.
1389AD
August 21st, 2010 @ 3:45 am

The Ground Zero Mosque or ANY mosque has the potential, and in fact the likelihood, of becoming a focus of jihadism and a source of subversive propaganda (taqiyya). That is simply because jihadism (and no, I do not mean “internal struggle”) and taqiyya are central and indispensible tenets of Islam.

If the 9-11 mosque in the US were to be built, it too would become a pilgrimage and recruitment center for jihadis. This is a matter, not only of respect for the dead, but of national security.

While the tranzi-progressive/pro-jihadi NYC bureaucrats, politicians, and media pundits are doing everything they can to smooth the way for this mosque (and being very self-righteous about their reasons for this), they are creating every possible obstacle to the rebuilding of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which was destroyed in the 9-11 attack when the South Tower fell on it.

Rebuild St. Nicholas CHURCH at Ground Zero, not a mosque

The parish still has an active congregation but no building; they have been meeting to worship in Brooklyn. Now, many of us Orthodox Christians, working pretty much independently by word of mouth among friends and parishoners, have finally succeeded in getting some news media attention to this matter.

I’d like to ask all Americans supporting St. Nicholas Church to call, write, or better yet, GO AND VISIT the offices of their US Representative and US Senators. You will probably just get to talk to a staffer, but the staffer will pass this information along. It makes a BIG difference if you take the trouble to write a personal letter or show up in person.

Everyone, please, pass the information along to everybody else you know who might be interested. Put it on Facebook, repost it on your own blog, email it to your friends and relatives, whatever else you can think of.

Let’s keep this issue before the public eye!

Thanks!
1389AD
August 20th, 2010 @ 11:45 pm

The Ground Zero Mosque or ANY mosque has the potential, and in fact the likelihood, of becoming a focus of jihadism and a source of subversive propaganda (taqiyya). That is simply because jihadism (and no, I do not mean “internal struggle”) and taqiyya are central and indispensible tenets of Islam.

If the 9-11 mosque in the US were to be built, it too would become a pilgrimage and recruitment center for jihadis. This is a matter, not only of respect for the dead, but of national security.

While the tranzi-progressive/pro-jihadi NYC bureaucrats, politicians, and media pundits are doing everything they can to smooth the way for this mosque (and being very self-righteous about their reasons for this), they are creating every possible obstacle to the rebuilding of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, which was destroyed in the 9-11 attack when the South Tower fell on it.

Rebuild St. Nicholas CHURCH at Ground Zero, not a mosque

The parish still has an active congregation but no building; they have been meeting to worship in Brooklyn. Now, many of us Orthodox Christians, working pretty much independently by word of mouth among friends and parishoners, have finally succeeded in getting some news media attention to this matter.

I’d like to ask all Americans supporting St. Nicholas Church to call, write, or better yet, GO AND VISIT the offices of their US Representative and US Senators. You will probably just get to talk to a staffer, but the staffer will pass this information along. It makes a BIG difference if you take the trouble to write a personal letter or show up in person.

Everyone, please, pass the information along to everybody else you know who might be interested. Put it on Facebook, repost it on your own blog, email it to your friends and relatives, whatever else you can think of.

Let’s keep this issue before the public eye!

Thanks!
young4eyes
August 21st, 2010 @ 4:12 am

Smitty, I get what Ace was trying to say. The comparison, I feel, just doesn’t add up. You know, I might feel completely different about this matter if there was some tact involved by those who oppose Project 51, as opposed to the tantrums and whiny bellyaching I’ve seen so far.For example, look at the post by# 6,”1389AD”.
There are many many many folks on the Right who are using this one incident as an impetus to derail any Mosque construction anywhere now and in the future. This is what sickens me the most, that this one incident in NY will take us as a nation somewhere we desperately must not go.
young4eyes
August 21st, 2010 @ 12:12 am

Smitty, I get what Ace was trying to say. The comparison, I feel, just doesn’t add up. You know, I might feel completely different about this matter if there was some tact involved by those who oppose Project 51, as opposed to the tantrums and whiny bellyaching I’ve seen so far.For example, look at the post by# 6,”1389AD”.
There are many many many folks on the Right who are using this one incident as an impetus to derail any Mosque construction anywhere now and in the future. This is what sickens me the most, that this one incident in NY will take us as a nation somewhere we desperately must not go.
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 4:28 am

young4eyes, if I thought you were serious I would be worried. But you are just pretending to be serious. You just want to be contrarian.

Because you are young.

And not that bright.
two kgs of pigsnout
August 21st, 2010 @ 4:28 am

@1389 AD

“Rebuild St. Nicholas CHURCH at Ground Zero, not a mosque”

Well sure you have enough space to build both in their respective places.

Anyway, who is stopping you from rebuilding the damaged church?

Who is stopping the church from doing this? Are there no rich Christians at all who would want to fund such an effort to built this sacred place of worship that fell on 911? (Hey, why don’t you just ask conservative crusader Rush Limbaugh, he is rich enough to entirely fund this all on his own).

The most perplexing part of you post is why are you writing to the senators and congressmen? You want the government to fund the reconstruction efforts?! LMAO! How conservative of you!
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 12:28 am

young4eyes, if I thought you were serious I would be worried. But you are just pretending to be serious. You just want to be contrarian.

Because you are young.

And not that bright.
two kgs of pigsnout
August 21st, 2010 @ 12:28 am

@1389 AD

“Rebuild St. Nicholas CHURCH at Ground Zero, not a mosque”

Well sure you have enough space to build both in their respective places.

Anyway, who is stopping you from rebuilding the damaged church?

Who is stopping the church from doing this? Are there no rich Christians at all who would want to fund such an effort to built this sacred place of worship that fell on 911? (Hey, why don’t you just ask conservative crusader Rush Limbaugh, he is rich enough to entirely fund this all on his own).

The most perplexing part of you post is why are you writing to the senators and congressmen? You want the government to fund the reconstruction efforts?! LMAO! How conservative of you!
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 4:41 am

two kgs of pigsnout

What drugs are you on? We want government to get out of the way on St. Nick’s (not to fund it) and stop bending over backwards for the Muslim Cordoba House. How about equal = equal for both.
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 12:41 am

two kgs of pigsnout

What drugs are you on? We want government to get out of the way on St. Nick’s (not to fund it) and stop bending over backwards for the Muslim Cordoba House. How about equal = equal for both.
two kgs of pigsnout
August 21st, 2010 @ 4:51 am

@medieval moron

Like to add that unlike your ilk, supporters of building of the Muslim cultural center in question are not in opposition to any proposal to rebuilt the St. Nicholas Church.

You guys are the worst of the bigoted types that come out from your stinking caves whenever there hear a hint of a conflict of a religious kind. You just need an excuse to come out and plant your holy flags and disgust even those who are on the opposite side of the issue of the construction of the Muslim structure.
two kgs of pigsnout
August 21st, 2010 @ 12:51 am

@medieval moron

Like to add that unlike your ilk, supporters of building of the Muslim cultural center in question are not in opposition to any proposal to rebuilt the St. Nicholas Church.

You guys are the worst of the bigoted types that come out from your stinking caves whenever there hear a hint of a conflict of a religious kind. You just need an excuse to come out and plant your holy flags and disgust even those who are on the opposite side of the issue of the construction of the Muslim structure.
two kgs of pigsnout
August 21st, 2010 @ 4:56 am

“We want government to get out of the way on St. Nick’s…”

And you want the government to get in the way on the Cordoba House/Park 51. It figures. Only that you are totally blind to your own hypocrisy about your political ideology.
two kgs of pigsnout
August 21st, 2010 @ 12:56 am

“We want government to get out of the way on St. Nick’s…”

And you want the government to get in the way on the Cordoba House/Park 51. It figures. Only that you are totally blind to your own hypocrisy about your political ideology.
James Just
August 21st, 2010 @ 5:19 am

Blame it on the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius who ruled in the 7th century for allowing the first Muslim Mosque to be built during his reign in the Christian capitol of Constantinople. The building of a mosque is a political military act that paves the way for a larger military assault on that foreign land. The Crusades were a “response” to Muslim military invasions. Contemporaneously, when the Muslim population of a country reaches 10% then they can issue official clerical fatwas. That is why there are no fatwas issued from the USA because there population is less than 2%. Religious troubles are just starting, wait till the Muslims begin having pilgrimages to the USA then America is really in trouble.
James Just
August 21st, 2010 @ 1:19 am

Blame it on the Byzantine Emperor Heraclius who ruled in the 7th century for allowing the first Muslim Mosque to be built during his reign in the Christian capitol of Constantinople. The building of a mosque is a political military act that paves the way for a larger military assault on that foreign land. The Crusades were a “response” to Muslim military invasions. Contemporaneously, when the Muslim population of a country reaches 10% then they can issue official clerical fatwas. That is why there are no fatwas issued from the USA because there population is less than 2%. Religious troubles are just starting, wait till the Muslims begin having pilgrimages to the USA then America is really in trouble.
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 5:34 am

Wrong pigsnout. Wrong wrong wrong.

That is your pigheaded spin. Because you are a troll liar. But let me clarify for others. I want govenrment to do nothing to ban the Cordoba Mosque (certain no violations of the 1st and 5th amendments).

My condemnation of the Cordoba House is moral only. If they really are about building bridges, they are failing miserably.

What I want is Nannymayor Bloomberg to go back to his jihad on transfats and smoking (actually I wish he would lay off that too) and stop greasing the skids for the Cordoba House.

Now go root some truffels and make yourself useful.
Joe
August 21st, 2010 @ 1:34 am

Wrong pigsnout. Wrong wrong wrong.

That is your pigheaded spin. Because you are a troll liar. But let me clarify for others. I want govenrment to do nothing to ban the Cordoba Mosque (certain no violations of the 1st and 5th amendments).

My condemnation of the Cordoba House is moral only. If they really are about building bridges, they are failing miserably.

What I want is Nannymayor Bloomberg to go back to his jihad on transfats and smoking (actually I wish he would lay off that too) and stop greasing the skids for the Cordoba House.

Now go root some truffels and make yourself useful.
JFH
August 21st, 2010 @ 7:43 am

ARGGHHHH!!!

This is pedantic, but the “Stars and Bars have” never flown over the capital in my state of SC. It was the Confederate Battle Flag! (and actually the one that flies now at the Confederate Memorial is the “square” “rebel” flag, which is much more historically correct for the NoVa Army and NOT a symbol for racists in the south).

If you want to know what the Stars and Bars flag looks like, just google the CURRENT Georgia state flag… you know the one they adopted just to get the NAACP to not boycott the state like they’re currently doing for SC. Merely, remove the GA state seal that is surrounded by stars and you’ll have the EXACT same flag that was the final version of the “Stars and Bars” that was the flag of the Confederacy for over two years.
JFH
August 21st, 2010 @ 3:43 am

ARGGHHHH!!!

This is pedantic, but the “Stars and Bars have” never flown over the capital in my state of SC. It was the Confederate Battle Flag! (and actually the one that flies now at the Confederate Memorial is the “square” “rebel” flag, which is much more historically correct for the NoVa Army and NOT a symbol for racists in the south).

If you want to know what the Stars and Bars flag looks like, just google the CURRENT Georgia state flag… you know the one they adopted just to get the NAACP to not boycott the state like they’re currently doing for SC. Merely, remove the GA state seal that is surrounded by stars and you’ll have the EXACT same flag that was the final version of the “Stars and Bars” that was the flag of the Confederacy for over two years.
smitty
August 21st, 2010 @ 11:12 am

@JFH,
You’re right: that’s pedantic.
The flag on Bo and Luke Duke’s “General Lee” is the Stars and Bars in the same way the Park51 Cutie Bunny Cultural Center is a mosque at Ground Zero. Irrespective of semantic fine points of the definition, the public mind considers Park51 a mosque, and the battle flag the Stars and Bars.
So it goes.
smitty
August 21st, 2010 @ 7:12 am

@JFH,
You’re right: that’s pedantic.
The flag on Bo and Luke Duke’s “General Lee” is the Stars and Bars in the same way the Park51 Cutie Bunny Cultural Center is a mosque at Ground Zero. Irrespective of semantic fine points of the definition, the public mind considers Park51 a mosque, and the battle flag the Stars and Bars.
So it goes.
James Just
August 21st, 2010 @ 6:34 pm

The Army of the Confederacy was the greatest army in the world at that time in history. Less that 3% of the Southern population owned slaves. Considering that the USA fought a war to end slavery, and Islam is all about slavery, why in the world would modern black society embrace the Muslim religion and reject Christianity? Christianity was a liberation theology that set them free.
James Just
August 21st, 2010 @ 2:34 pm

The Army of the Confederacy was the greatest army in the world at that time in history. Less that 3% of the Southern population owned slaves. Considering that the USA fought a war to end slavery, and Islam is all about slavery, why in the world would modern black society embrace the Muslim religion and reject Christianity? Christianity was a liberation theology that set them free.
smitty
August 21st, 2010 @ 7:12 pm

@James,
The political, economic, historical, and theological arguments are too complicated to handle in a blog, much less a comment in a blog.
smitty
August 21st, 2010 @ 3:12 pm

@James,
The political, economic, historical, and theological arguments are too complicated to handle in a blog, much less a comment in a blog.
Kojocaro
August 21st, 2010 @ 10:57 pm

two kgs of douschebaggery should not be complaining about homophobia or bigotry since he supports the mosque like the ignorant youngforeskin protege he is
Kojocaro
August 21st, 2010 @ 6:57 pm

two kgs of douschebaggery should not be complaining about homophobia or bigotry since he supports the mosque like the ignorant youngforeskin protege he is
two kgs of pigsnout
August 22nd, 2010 @ 9:22 am

@Kojo

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/local_loon.php
two kgs of pigsnout
August 22nd, 2010 @ 5:22 am

@Kojo

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/06/local_loon.php