Will Libertarians Decry The Boston Tea Party?

Posted on | September 2, 2010 | 198 Comments

by Smitty (h/t Dan Riehl)

I was just listening to the Levin rant, which is a must-hear. Levin starts with the Boston Tea Party. Dumping the tea into Boston Harbor was a gross violation of private property.
That’s a cute historical point, but, if those Bostonians had been fully committed to Libertarian navel-gazing, we’d still be under a monarchy.
So, if the people then were intolerant of oppression fromo London, and are considered patriots, why are New Yorkers asking for space between the area impacted by the 9/11 attack and a mosque not also patriots for resisting what could be considered an act of oppression?
Over to you Kn@ppster.

Category: Libertarians

Comments

198 Responses to “Will Libertarians Decry The Boston Tea Party?”

young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 8:58 pm

oh gawd Randy, can you be more pathetic? really, your claim to superiority is based on finances?
Well then, that would make George Soros a million times the man you are.
Loser….
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 8:58 pm

oh gawd Randy, can you be more pathetic? really, your claim to superiority is based on finances?
Well then, that would make George Soros a million times the man you are.
Loser….
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

oh gawd Randy, can you be more pathetic? really, your claim to superiority is based on finances?
Well then, that would make George Soros a million times the man you are.
Loser….
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:01 pm

“I have an Indian doctor whom I respect greatly, a larger than expected chunk of my clients are Indian and I dearly love Indian food.”
Would love to see how your “clients” react to your quaint ideas about India and Indians.
Or is this one of those” I’m not a racist.My nanny is black” type things…
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:01 pm

“I have an Indian doctor whom I respect greatly, a larger than expected chunk of my clients are Indian and I dearly love Indian food.”
Would love to see how your “clients” react to your quaint ideas about India and Indians.
Or is this one of those” I’m not a racist.My nanny is black” type things…
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:01 pm

“I have an Indian doctor whom I respect greatly, a larger than expected chunk of my clients are Indian and I dearly love Indian food.”
Would love to see how your “clients” react to your quaint ideas about India and Indians.
Or is this one of those” I’m not a racist.My nanny is black” type things…
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:03 pm

@Randy Rager,

i did not compare the ‘per capita’ of India to the Us. There is no comparison there at all. Given so much poverty still there in my country. But the cities are growing and India is growing that is the point. India is growing up, America is growing down.

Your original rant about the size of RI’s economy was in comparison to India’s GDP growth. Which i proved was an out of bounds exaggeration. You now move the argument to ‘per capita’, rather than accept your mistake (which doesn’t surprise me given you won’t apologize in the previous case).

For the record, India’s economy (GDP-PPP) is bigger than the combined GSP of California, Texas and New York.
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:03 pm

@Randy Rager,

i did not compare the ‘per capita’ of India to the Us. There is no comparison there at all. Given so much poverty still there in my country. But the cities are growing and India is growing that is the point. India is growing up, America is growing down.

Your original rant about the size of RI’s economy was in comparison to India’s GDP growth. Which i proved was an out of bounds exaggeration. You now move the argument to ‘per capita’, rather than accept your mistake (which doesn’t surprise me given you won’t apologize in the previous case).

For the record, India’s economy (GDP-PPP) is bigger than the combined GSP of California, Texas and New York.
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:03 pm

@Randy Rager,

i did not compare the ‘per capita’ of India to the Us. There is no comparison there at all. Given so much poverty still there in my country. But the cities are growing and India is growing that is the point. India is growing up, America is growing down.

Your original rant about the size of RI’s economy was in comparison to India’s GDP growth. Which i proved was an out of bounds exaggeration. You now move the argument to ‘per capita’, rather than accept your mistake (which doesn’t surprise me given you won’t apologize in the previous case).

For the record, India’s economy (GDP-PPP) is bigger than the combined GSP of California, Texas and New York.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:05 pm

India has a GDP of about $1.2 trillion (US); Rhode Island, of $46 billion.

However, that translates to a per capita GDP of almost exactly $1,000 in India (population: 1.139 billion), compared to a per capita GDP of $44,000 in Rhode Island (population: 1.05 million).

Even if India’s GDP were to expand at its current rate indefinitely, it would take fifty years for the per-capita GDPs to be equal… except, of course, in fifty years, India will be a wasteland. When a country, with it’s much vaunted “Indian intellect”, is so stupid as to slaughter fifteen percent of its females, it’s going down the Darwinian drain within a generation.

Of course, it’s also foolish to expect that a country with a 54% literacy rate among women and a 75% literacy rate among men (here) has a snowball’s chance in hell of continuing to grow at that rate. Your population of adult illiterates is almost as large as the entire United States – vaunted “Indian intellect” aside. Read that whole link; India’s problems are deep, systematic, and, unlike America’s, are incredibly hard and expensive to fix.

Furthermore, when your one claim to greatness as a country is that the demand for foreign (i.e. American) trained professionals is so high that it’s driving some of them to come home, you’re sort of screwed. From your own link:

The demand for talented and US-experienced personnel is so high that Mr Sachar has had requests pouring in from Indian companies.

Whoa, India totally spanks America because its job growth is due to… having people who were trained in America! Right.

Now it’s someone else’s turn to educate this kid before the world does in far more harsh ways.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:05 pm

India has a GDP of about $1.2 trillion (US); Rhode Island, of $46 billion.

However, that translates to a per capita GDP of almost exactly $1,000 in India (population: 1.139 billion), compared to a per capita GDP of $44,000 in Rhode Island (population: 1.05 million).

Even if India’s GDP were to expand at its current rate indefinitely, it would take fifty years for the per-capita GDPs to be equal… except, of course, in fifty years, India will be a wasteland. When a country, with it’s much vaunted “Indian intellect”, is so stupid as to slaughter fifteen percent of its females, it’s going down the Darwinian drain within a generation.

Of course, it’s also foolish to expect that a country with a 54% literacy rate among women and a 75% literacy rate among men (here) has a snowball’s chance in hell of continuing to grow at that rate. Your population of adult illiterates is almost as large as the entire United States – vaunted “Indian intellect” aside. Read that whole link; India’s problems are deep, systematic, and, unlike America’s, are incredibly hard and expensive to fix.

Furthermore, when your one claim to greatness as a country is that the demand for foreign (i.e. American) trained professionals is so high that it’s driving some of them to come home, you’re sort of screwed. From your own link:

The demand for talented and US-experienced personnel is so high that Mr Sachar has had requests pouring in from Indian companies.

Whoa, India totally spanks America because its job growth is due to… having people who were trained in America! Right.

Now it’s someone else’s turn to educate this kid before the world does in far more harsh ways.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:05 pm

India has a GDP of about $1.2 trillion (US); Rhode Island, of $46 billion.

However, that translates to a per capita GDP of almost exactly $1,000 in India (population: 1.139 billion), compared to a per capita GDP of $44,000 in Rhode Island (population: 1.05 million).

Even if India’s GDP were to expand at its current rate indefinitely, it would take fifty years for the per-capita GDPs to be equal… except, of course, in fifty years, India will be a wasteland. When a country, with it’s much vaunted “Indian intellect”, is so stupid as to slaughter fifteen percent of its females, it’s going down the Darwinian drain within a generation.

Of course, it’s also foolish to expect that a country with a 54% literacy rate among women and a 75% literacy rate among men (here) has a snowball’s chance in hell of continuing to grow at that rate. Your population of adult illiterates is almost as large as the entire United States – vaunted “Indian intellect” aside. Read that whole link; India’s problems are deep, systematic, and, unlike America’s, are incredibly hard and expensive to fix.

Furthermore, when your one claim to greatness as a country is that the demand for foreign (i.e. American) trained professionals is so high that it’s driving some of them to come home, you’re sort of screwed. From your own link:

The demand for talented and US-experienced personnel is so high that Mr Sachar has had requests pouring in from Indian companies.

Whoa, India totally spanks America because its job growth is due to… having people who were trained in America! Right.

Now it’s someone else’s turn to educate this kid before the world does in far more harsh ways.
Thomas L. Knapp
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

waylay/Y4e,

The notion that the British Empire was the best thing to ever happen to India isn’t exactly a fringe thing.

It certainly wasn’t an unalloyed good thing, but I do know Indians who firmly believe that it was an overall good thing.

For that matter, I have to doubt that Gandhi himself regarded British imperialism as wholly evil. If not for the Empire, it seems unlikely that he’d have studied at University College London or that he’d have risen to prominence in South Africa.
Thomas L. Knapp
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

waylay/Y4e,

The notion that the British Empire was the best thing to ever happen to India isn’t exactly a fringe thing.

It certainly wasn’t an unalloyed good thing, but I do know Indians who firmly believe that it was an overall good thing.

For that matter, I have to doubt that Gandhi himself regarded British imperialism as wholly evil. If not for the Empire, it seems unlikely that he’d have studied at University College London or that he’d have risen to prominence in South Africa.
Thomas L. Knapp
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:09 pm

waylay/Y4e,

The notion that the British Empire was the best thing to ever happen to India isn’t exactly a fringe thing.

It certainly wasn’t an unalloyed good thing, but I do know Indians who firmly believe that it was an overall good thing.

For that matter, I have to doubt that Gandhi himself regarded British imperialism as wholly evil. If not for the Empire, it seems unlikely that he’d have studied at University College London or that he’d have risen to prominence in South Africa.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:12 pm

More fun about India and its allegedly amazing IIT schools:

He also bemoaned that less than one percent of IIT graduates choose to pursue post-graduate studies within the IIT system, while tens of thousands of others have expressed their lack of confidence in the state of Indian technical education by flocking to masters and doctoral programs in the United States. (Read the full text of Ansari’s remarks here.)

As per above, kid, even if India keeps going up (which is a massive assumption that can’t happen in reality, given your horrific poverty and illiteracy), it’ll take two generations for them to meet – and even you, as young and foolish as you are, will be retired by then.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:12 pm

More fun about India and its allegedly amazing IIT schools:

He also bemoaned that less than one percent of IIT graduates choose to pursue post-graduate studies within the IIT system, while tens of thousands of others have expressed their lack of confidence in the state of Indian technical education by flocking to masters and doctoral programs in the United States. (Read the full text of Ansari’s remarks here.)

As per above, kid, even if India keeps going up (which is a massive assumption that can’t happen in reality, given your horrific poverty and illiteracy), it’ll take two generations for them to meet – and even you, as young and foolish as you are, will be retired by then.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:12 pm

More fun about India and its allegedly amazing IIT schools:

He also bemoaned that less than one percent of IIT graduates choose to pursue post-graduate studies within the IIT system, while tens of thousands of others have expressed their lack of confidence in the state of Indian technical education by flocking to masters and doctoral programs in the United States. (Read the full text of Ansari’s remarks here.)

As per above, kid, even if India keeps going up (which is a massive assumption that can’t happen in reality, given your horrific poverty and illiteracy), it’ll take two generations for them to meet – and even you, as young and foolish as you are, will be retired by then.
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:14 pm

“That being said, today’s troll of the Leftards here was immensely satisfying.”–Randy Rager

It must be VERY SATISFYING for Randy that a couple of people took his bait. Not.

Actually he made a fool of himself today–with his nutty, angry and later dishonest and straw men arguments–on TOM. And sure he needs a cigar and maybe a a few shots for he got royally handed his ass and went on to expose himself of the shit he is made of.

“Or is this one of those” I’m not a racist.My nanny is black” type things…”–y4e

Na… just another troll comment.
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:14 pm

Hey look. Pathetic attempts to yell “Raaaaacism!”

Sorry honey. That card’s overdrawn. Thanks for playing, buh-bye!

And yes, I used economics as a basis for value judgement. Just like every other human being on the planet that’s not a drooling moron.

I didn’t compare GDP-PPP, I used nominal. By nominal, California, Texas and New York are each larger than India. Purchasing Power Parity can be an interesting indicator, but it’s essentially a guess, and therefore suspect. Also known as bullshit.

So. Sucks to be you, I guess.

Guys, it’s been fun, but I’m tired of trolling your punk asses. Catch you in the funny papers!
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

“That being said, today’s troll of the Leftards here was immensely satisfying.”–Randy Rager

It must be VERY SATISFYING for Randy that a couple of people took his bait. Not.

Actually he made a fool of himself today–with his nutty, angry and later dishonest and straw men arguments–on TOM. And sure he needs a cigar and maybe a a few shots for he got royally handed his ass and went on to expose himself of the shit he is made of.

“Or is this one of those” I’m not a racist.My nanny is black” type things…”–y4e

Na… just another troll comment.
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:14 pm

Hey look. Pathetic attempts to yell “Raaaaacism!”

Sorry honey. That card’s overdrawn. Thanks for playing, buh-bye!

And yes, I used economics as a basis for value judgement. Just like every other human being on the planet that’s not a drooling moron.

I didn’t compare GDP-PPP, I used nominal. By nominal, California, Texas and New York are each larger than India. Purchasing Power Parity can be an interesting indicator, but it’s essentially a guess, and therefore suspect. Also known as bullshit.

So. Sucks to be you, I guess.

Guys, it’s been fun, but I’m tired of trolling your punk asses. Catch you in the funny papers!
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:15 pm

Hey, young4eyes? If you’re that desperate for attention, why don’t you try scoring higher than a C- on your homework so Mommy will love you enough to tell you who your real Father is?
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:15 pm

Hey, young4eyes? If you’re that desperate for attention, why don’t you try scoring higher than a C- on your homework so Mommy will love you enough to tell you who your real Father is?
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:22 pm

“Hey look. Pathetic attempts to yell “Raaaaacism!”
Sorry honey. That card’s overdrawn. Thanks for playing, buh-bye!”
Right, it’s pathetic to call a spade a spade. The truth card could never be overdrawn, so go back to listening to talk radio and get yourself another talking point.
And using economic value judgements is the way of those who so desperately need to find something worthy in themselves for lack of everything else. Kind of like overcompensating for your small package.Not surprising, Randy.
Hey, there are remedies nowadays. You can increase your size so you won’t have your finances to fall back on. That or live in the shadow of Sean Penn who is a much better person than you.And much richer…
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:22 pm

“Hey look. Pathetic attempts to yell “Raaaaacism!”
Sorry honey. That card’s overdrawn. Thanks for playing, buh-bye!”
Right, it’s pathetic to call a spade a spade. The truth card could never be overdrawn, so go back to listening to talk radio and get yourself another talking point.
And using economic value judgements is the way of those who so desperately need to find something worthy in themselves for lack of everything else. Kind of like overcompensating for your small package.Not surprising, Randy.
Hey, there are remedies nowadays. You can increase your size so you won’t have your finances to fall back on. That or live in the shadow of Sean Penn who is a much better person than you.And much richer…
young4eyes
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:22 pm

“Hey look. Pathetic attempts to yell “Raaaaacism!”
Sorry honey. That card’s overdrawn. Thanks for playing, buh-bye!”
Right, it’s pathetic to call a spade a spade. The truth card could never be overdrawn, so go back to listening to talk radio and get yourself another talking point.
And using economic value judgements is the way of those who so desperately need to find something worthy in themselves for lack of everything else. Kind of like overcompensating for your small package.Not surprising, Randy.
Hey, there are remedies nowadays. You can increase your size so you won’t have your finances to fall back on. That or live in the shadow of Sean Penn who is a much better person than you.And much richer…
Bob Belvedere
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:25 pm

Bravo, RR, Roxeanne, and Tom!
Bob Belvedere
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:25 pm

Bravo, RR, Roxeanne, and Tom!
Bob Belvedere
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:25 pm

Bravo, RR, Roxeanne, and Tom!
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:35 pm

Dumbass Roxie begins with …

India has a GDP of about $1.2 trillion (US); Rhode Island, of $46 billion.

Google difference between GDP (PPP) vs. GDP (nominal). And then correct your figures for an appropriate comparison.

Post graduation in the Indian job market is not desired as is the case in the US. Of course Research and higher education in general in India is not up to mark to world standards. And it won’t be an exaggeration to say that an IIT graduate with a bachelors degree with two years job experience in India/Abroad is worth more than an Indian who had done his MS in say a top 50 US university or even in an IIT in India, when the two are competing for a similar job either in India or the US.

The point about an IIT bachelor’s education is about the brains. Only the best get admissions. They are considered to be India’s cream. What ever field and whatever place they choose after graduation, they excel in it. Not the same with the post graduation in IITs. People get admitted to PG in IIT (with a bachelors from other universities) are not considered to be THAT bright.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:35 pm

Final thought: India produces about fifty computer science Ph.D.s every year. Here’s the question: is that greater, less than, or about equal to Rhode Island, which has Brown and URI?

As for comparison: my suburban town has almost eight thousand people with PhDs, MDs, JDs, MBAs, or master’s degrees. I feel incredibly fortunate to live here and not in some slum in a third-world country, and, in a weird way, really resent the implication that America on a down-hill slide is like a third-world country, because it does a tremendous disservice to those who experience real poverty.

Poverty in America means having a car, microwave, cheap vaccines, and free health care and education for your kids. A lack of education in America means graduating from high school. As America hits a recession, we become more educated: a lot of people are using their unemployed time to pursue another degree, get a certification, or learn something to improve their chances on the job market. It is, truly, the closest thing to paradise on earth – and, yes, most any other place in the world is an absolute hellhole compared to the way we live.

Slap your compatriots in the face by acting like they have the opportunities we do, if you wish, but be aware that at best, you’re doing nothing; at worst, you are making it harder for your country to fight its problems.
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:35 pm

Dumbass Roxie begins with …

India has a GDP of about $1.2 trillion (US); Rhode Island, of $46 billion.

Google difference between GDP (PPP) vs. GDP (nominal). And then correct your figures for an appropriate comparison.

Post graduation in the Indian job market is not desired as is the case in the US. Of course Research and higher education in general in India is not up to mark to world standards. And it won’t be an exaggeration to say that an IIT graduate with a bachelors degree with two years job experience in India/Abroad is worth more than an Indian who had done his MS in say a top 50 US university or even in an IIT in India, when the two are competing for a similar job either in India or the US.

The point about an IIT bachelor’s education is about the brains. Only the best get admissions. They are considered to be India’s cream. What ever field and whatever place they choose after graduation, they excel in it. Not the same with the post graduation in IITs. People get admitted to PG in IIT (with a bachelors from other universities) are not considered to be THAT bright.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:35 pm

Final thought: India produces about fifty computer science Ph.D.s every year. Here’s the question: is that greater, less than, or about equal to Rhode Island, which has Brown and URI?

As for comparison: my suburban town has almost eight thousand people with PhDs, MDs, JDs, MBAs, or master’s degrees. I feel incredibly fortunate to live here and not in some slum in a third-world country, and, in a weird way, really resent the implication that America on a down-hill slide is like a third-world country, because it does a tremendous disservice to those who experience real poverty.

Poverty in America means having a car, microwave, cheap vaccines, and free health care and education for your kids. A lack of education in America means graduating from high school. As America hits a recession, we become more educated: a lot of people are using their unemployed time to pursue another degree, get a certification, or learn something to improve their chances on the job market. It is, truly, the closest thing to paradise on earth – and, yes, most any other place in the world is an absolute hellhole compared to the way we live.

Slap your compatriots in the face by acting like they have the opportunities we do, if you wish, but be aware that at best, you’re doing nothing; at worst, you are making it harder for your country to fight its problems.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:50 pm

Bob: no “brava” for me?! You know what I look like, and I don’t think you would mistake me for being male…. 🙁

Young4eyes/gg/waylay: GDP PPP is an estimate, not a hard figure, and my engineer brain prefers the number, not some social “scientist’s” fudging thereof. PPP is almost impossible to accurately calculate, as one would not only have to determine the price of every single item on the market, but determine some means to adjust for the different quantities of those items. This issue is further compounded by the fact that some goods for sale in third-world countries are simply not available in America, for any price – half-rotted food or substandard shelter being among the top of the list.

More importantly, your argument was predicated on India moving up and America moving down, but that actually makes an analysis with straight-up GDP more appropriate: GDP PPP decreases as countries become wealthier. Just as an hour of landscaping, burger-flipping, or tailoring in America has to, by law, cost at least $7.25, the same would be true of a hypothetical prosperous, America-like India. If I wanted to correct for this in my calculation of how long it would take India, continuing on its current path, to be like America, I would have to correct back to straight-up GDP anyway. Obvious to anyone who thinks.

So, dahlin, before you call me a “dumbass”, you might want to consider that a “Roxe is dumb” argument is about as valid as “America is poor!111!!” line of reasoning.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:50 pm

Bob: no “brava” for me?! You know what I look like, and I don’t think you would mistake me for being male…. 🙁

Young4eyes/gg/waylay: GDP PPP is an estimate, not a hard figure, and my engineer brain prefers the number, not some social “scientist’s” fudging thereof. PPP is almost impossible to accurately calculate, as one would not only have to determine the price of every single item on the market, but determine some means to adjust for the different quantities of those items. This issue is further compounded by the fact that some goods for sale in third-world countries are simply not available in America, for any price – half-rotted food or substandard shelter being among the top of the list.

More importantly, your argument was predicated on India moving up and America moving down, but that actually makes an analysis with straight-up GDP more appropriate: GDP PPP decreases as countries become wealthier. Just as an hour of landscaping, burger-flipping, or tailoring in America has to, by law, cost at least $7.25, the same would be true of a hypothetical prosperous, America-like India. If I wanted to correct for this in my calculation of how long it would take India, continuing on its current path, to be like America, I would have to correct back to straight-up GDP anyway. Obvious to anyone who thinks.

So, dahlin, before you call me a “dumbass”, you might want to consider that a “Roxe is dumb” argument is about as valid as “America is poor!111!!” line of reasoning.
Roxeanne de Luca
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:50 pm

Bob: no “brava” for me?! You know what I look like, and I don’t think you would mistake me for being male…. 🙁

Young4eyes/gg/waylay: GDP PPP is an estimate, not a hard figure, and my engineer brain prefers the number, not some social “scientist’s” fudging thereof. PPP is almost impossible to accurately calculate, as one would not only have to determine the price of every single item on the market, but determine some means to adjust for the different quantities of those items. This issue is further compounded by the fact that some goods for sale in third-world countries are simply not available in America, for any price – half-rotted food or substandard shelter being among the top of the list.

More importantly, your argument was predicated on India moving up and America moving down, but that actually makes an analysis with straight-up GDP more appropriate: GDP PPP decreases as countries become wealthier. Just as an hour of landscaping, burger-flipping, or tailoring in America has to, by law, cost at least $7.25, the same would be true of a hypothetical prosperous, America-like India. If I wanted to correct for this in my calculation of how long it would take India, continuing on its current path, to be like America, I would have to correct back to straight-up GDP anyway. Obvious to anyone who thinks.

So, dahlin, before you call me a “dumbass”, you might want to consider that a “Roxe is dumb” argument is about as valid as “America is poor!111!!” line of reasoning.
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:57 pm

When Jon Stewart (one of the slowest people in entertainment, with one of the slowest and densest writing teams in history) is telling you that the Race Card is overdrawn, as he did recently, then buddy, that card is maxed out.

You can’t buy any more credibility with it even if your target is racist, which I’m not.

Hell, plenty of people from India will tell you that the British Empire was the best thing to ever happen to the country. Of course, most of those people have moved to America, so waylay/gg probably doesn’t interact with them much. And they’re hard-working, intelligent and economically sensible people, so young4eyes probably doesn’t run in their circles much.

In the meantime, India is still a hellhole with at best (even if you use bullshit numbers like GDP-PPP) 1/10th the per capita income of Rhode Island, our smallest state.

As hellhole’s go, it’s one of the best hellholes the world has, but it’s a hellhole none the less.
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 9:57 pm

When Jon Stewart (one of the slowest people in entertainment, with one of the slowest and densest writing teams in history) is telling you that the Race Card is overdrawn, as he did recently, then buddy, that card is maxed out.

You can’t buy any more credibility with it even if your target is racist, which I’m not.

Hell, plenty of people from India will tell you that the British Empire was the best thing to ever happen to the country. Of course, most of those people have moved to America, so waylay/gg probably doesn’t interact with them much. And they’re hard-working, intelligent and economically sensible people, so young4eyes probably doesn’t run in their circles much.

In the meantime, India is still a hellhole with at best (even if you use bullshit numbers like GDP-PPP) 1/10th the per capita income of Rhode Island, our smallest state.

As hellhole’s go, it’s one of the best hellholes the world has, but it’s a hellhole none the less.
Randy Rager
September 2nd, 2010 @ 5:57 pm

When Jon Stewart (one of the slowest people in entertainment, with one of the slowest and densest writing teams in history) is telling you that the Race Card is overdrawn, as he did recently, then buddy, that card is maxed out.

You can’t buy any more credibility with it even if your target is racist, which I’m not.

Hell, plenty of people from India will tell you that the British Empire was the best thing to ever happen to the country. Of course, most of those people have moved to America, so waylay/gg probably doesn’t interact with them much. And they’re hard-working, intelligent and economically sensible people, so young4eyes probably doesn’t run in their circles much.

In the meantime, India is still a hellhole with at best (even if you use bullshit numbers like GDP-PPP) 1/10th the per capita income of Rhode Island, our smallest state.

As hellhole’s go, it’s one of the best hellholes the world has, but it’s a hellhole none the less.
Adobe Walls
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:05 pm

One does have to admire India’s amazing evolution on the role of Animals in public and spiritual life. And talking about spiritual, Waylay how many creatures have you reincarnated through since January?
Adobe Walls
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:05 pm

One does have to admire India’s amazing evolution on the role of Animals in public and spiritual life. And talking about spiritual, Waylay how many creatures have you reincarnated through since January?
Adobe Walls
September 2nd, 2010 @ 6:05 pm

One does have to admire India’s amazing evolution on the role of Animals in public and spiritual life. And talking about spiritual, Waylay how many creatures have you reincarnated through since January?
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:16 pm

@Tom

“…do know Indians who firmly believe that it was an overall good thing.”

I do so too… If not for the British, India would never have been a single unified country (except for Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma) under a democracy. There were too many princely states and lot of in-fighting. We never know what would have happened if French had control over India rather than the British.

But the i also think that we in India could have done better had we had say 5 or 6 smaller countries. India is too big and too diverse to effectively manage for my taste.

“For that matter, I have to doubt that Gandhi himself regarded British imperialism as wholly evil. ”

Of course not. Gandhi was accommodating to the British. He never saw them as an enemy. But the time has come during early 1900 when India as a united nation had the power to self-rule. During the first world war, Britain promised India with self rule rights if Indians helped them out with resources and military. Afer the war, the word was not kept. Gandhi’s demands were not for total Independence from the Crown. He was a moderate. The leaders within the congress party who demanded total Independence were considered extremists. Indian leaders were fully aware of the administrative and security problems, both internal and external, they may face. He was fighting for basic rights of his people. Fair taxes, improvement of conditions for workers, and things like that. They were for “home rule” , “self rule”, democratically elected representatives, and things like that. And i think it was only during 1942 Quit India Movement that Gandhi for the first time demanded Total Independence.

Even after Independence, India and its leaders had great relations with the British (See PM Nehru). Although the common sentiment among people is of hatred towards the British. The leaders publicly (in India) acknowledged their indebtedness to the British.

BUT this doesn’t mean that Gandhi and Nehru (our first Prime Minister, was educated in London) and others didn’t see the British rule as an “ill fortune” to India or “oppression” of free people.

Also note that Gandhi never had any complaints against the British people. His fight was against the British government. There were many British citizens both in Britian and India who lead India’s Independence movement.

This speech (aired on Radio) by Prime Minister Nehru on the eve of Indian Independence gives an overall mood of what Independence meant for India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryst_with_destiny

“Tryst with Destiny was a speech made by Jawaharlal Nehru, the first Prime Minister of independent India. The speech was made to the Indian Constituent Assembly, on the eve of India’s independence, towards midnight on 14 August 1947. It focuses on the aspects that transcend India’s history. It is considered in modern India to be a landmark oration that captures the essence of the triumphant culmination of the hundred-year Indian freedom struggle against the British Empire in India.”

The British justified and delayed their promises saying India will fall apart if they leave. Of course, before they left, they India and Pakistan were divided and there was a lot of chaos. But it only took a few years to convince all the hundreds of princely states in India to join the Union of India. And it is still amazing for me to see India has not fallen apart with so much diversity, linguistically and culturally.

There is much to be done, but the argument of the British that an Independent India would be a hellhole is tested to be false.

PS. forgibe the typos and grammar. Its 4.00 AM here!
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 6:16 pm

@Tom

“…do know Indians who firmly believe that it was an overall good thing.”

I do so too… If not for the British, India would never have been a single unified country (except for Pakistan, Bangladesh and Burma) under a democracy. There were too many princely states and lot of in-fighting. We never know what would have happened if French had control over India rather than the British.

But the i also think that we in India could have done better had we had say 5 or 6 smaller countries. India is too big and too diverse to effectively manage for my taste.

“For that matter, I have to doubt that Gandhi himself regarded British imperialism as wholly evil. ”

Of course not. Gandhi was accommodating to the British. He never saw them as an enemy. But the time has come during early 1900 when India as a united nation had the power to self-rule. During the first world war, Britain promised India with self rule rights if Indians helped them out with resources and military. Afer the war, the word was not kept. Gandhi’s demands were not for total Independence from the Crown. He was a moderate. The leaders within the congress party who demanded total Independence were considered extremists. Indian leaders were fully aware of the administrative and security problems, both internal and external, they may face. He was fighting for basic rights of his people. Fair taxes, improvement of conditions for workers, and things like that. They were for “home rule” , “self rule”, democratically elected representatives, and things like that. And i think it was only during 1942 Quit India Movement that Gandhi for the first time demanded Total Independence.

Even after Independence, India and its leaders had great relations with the British (See PM Nehru). Although the common sentiment among people is of hatred towards the British. The leaders publicly (in India) acknowledged their indebtedness to the British.

BUT this doesn’t mean that Gandhi and Nehru (our first Prime Minister, was educated in London) and others didn’t see the British rule as an “ill fortune” to India or “oppression” of free people.

Also note that Gandhi never had any complaints against the British people. His fight was against the British government. There were many British citizens both in Britian and India who lead India’s Independence movement.

This speech (aired on Radio) by Prime Minister Nehru on the eve of Indian Independence gives an overall mood of what Independence meant for India:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryst_with_destiny

“Tryst with Destiny was a speech made by Jawaharlal Nehru, the first Prime Minister of independent India. The speech was made to the Indian Constituent Assembly, on the eve of India’s independence, towards midnight on 14 August 1947. It focuses on the aspects that transcend India’s history. It is considered in modern India to be a landmark oration that captures the essence of the triumphant culmination of the hundred-year Indian freedom struggle against the British Empire in India.”

The British justified and delayed their promises saying India will fall apart if they leave. Of course, before they left, they India and Pakistan were divided and there was a lot of chaos. But it only took a few years to convince all the hundreds of princely states in India to join the Union of India. And it is still amazing for me to see India has not fallen apart with so much diversity, linguistically and culturally.

There is much to be done, but the argument of the British that an Independent India would be a hellhole is tested to be false.

PS. forgibe the typos and grammar. Its 4.00 AM here!
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:41 pm

@RdL

PPP is an estimation ok…

So lets talk about India’s (or China’s) economy in nominal terms (1.2 trillion) rather than PPP terms (3.5 trillion ) when comparing it to an advanced economy like that of the US or Japan (where the PPP and nominal don’t diffre by much).

Don’t mention this to your economics friends. They will laugh at you.

As for PG education…India is way back as to world standards. The US is the preferred choice, but more and more Indians are going to UK, Germany, Australia ad other nations as well. And more and more of those graduates and those who were working in the US are preferring to come back to India for a more satisfying job.

And who said, India will reach or overtake America s to the quality of life? It is easy to knock down a straw man.

India is changing and growing. So much opportunity, cost of living low and so many comforts and the cities are advancing. (Higher Education and Research though is still lagging.)
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:41 pm

@RdL

PPP is an estimation ok…

So lets talk about India’s (or China’s) economy in nominal terms (1.2 trillion) rather than PPP terms (3.5 trillion ) when comparing it to an advanced economy like that of the US or Japan (where the PPP and nominal don’t diffre by much).

Don’t mention this to your economics friends. They will laugh at you.

As for PG education…India is way back as to world standards. The US is the preferred choice, but more and more Indians are going to UK, Germany, Australia ad other nations as well. And more and more of those graduates and those who were working in the US are preferring to come back to India for a more satisfying job.

And who said, India will reach or overtake America s to the quality of life? It is easy to knock down a straw man.

India is changing and growing. So much opportunity, cost of living low and so many comforts and the cities are advancing. (Higher Education and Research though is still lagging.)
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 6:41 pm

@RdL

PPP is an estimation ok…

So lets talk about India’s (or China’s) economy in nominal terms (1.2 trillion) rather than PPP terms (3.5 trillion ) when comparing it to an advanced economy like that of the US or Japan (where the PPP and nominal don’t diffre by much).

Don’t mention this to your economics friends. They will laugh at you.

As for PG education…India is way back as to world standards. The US is the preferred choice, but more and more Indians are going to UK, Germany, Australia ad other nations as well. And more and more of those graduates and those who were working in the US are preferring to come back to India for a more satisfying job.

And who said, India will reach or overtake America s to the quality of life? It is easy to knock down a straw man.

India is changing and growing. So much opportunity, cost of living low and so many comforts and the cities are advancing. (Higher Education and Research though is still lagging.)
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:51 pm

Randy Rager rants “1/10th the per capita income of Rhode Island, our smallest state.”

Your ‘smallest’ state has more per capita than the average per capita of the whole of United States, you moron.

IOW, comparing per capita of your “smallest state” to India’s doesn’t add anything to your point.

You could have compared the figure to your “poorest state” (Mississippi? Utah? West Virginia?) to make your triumphant point.

But then that would be asking you too much, given you still haven’t apologized or accepted tour mistakes upthread.
waylay
September 2nd, 2010 @ 10:51 pm

Randy Rager rants “1/10th the per capita income of Rhode Island, our smallest state.”

Your ‘smallest’ state has more per capita than the average per capita of the whole of United States, you moron.

IOW, comparing per capita of your “smallest state” to India’s doesn’t add anything to your point.

You could have compared the figure to your “poorest state” (Mississippi? Utah? West Virginia?) to make your triumphant point.

But then that would be asking you too much, given you still haven’t apologized or accepted tour mistakes upthread.

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