The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Madness On The Conservative Front

Posted on | January 31, 2012 | 51 Comments

by Smitty

Breitbart.tv has said “NEWT DENIED ADVOCATING INDIVIDUAL MANDATE DURING THURSDAY’S DEBATE, 2009 AUDIO PROVES HE DID”
At Legal Insurrection:

This is wrong. I have listened to the entire audio recording, and Newt does not endorse the Obamacare mandate, in part because the speech took place before even the earliest draft of Obamacare had been proposed.
The actual discussion in the recording is nothing new, listen for yourself, it shows Newt saying what he has said before about not allowing free riders at hospitals including either having insurance or showing that you have the ability to pay. You can like it or not, but it’s not new or news, as Verum Serum acknowledges in its post.
The recording does not support the conclusion that Newt supported Obama’s federal mandate, which uses the police powers of the state to force people to buy insurance or face penalties.
At the time of Newt’s presentation, in May 2009, the earliest versions of Obamacare had not yet been released. Newt specifically notes that the details of what would be proposed were unknown and (at 27:00) the process was still in the “wish list press conference stage.”
The initial version of Obamacare was not released until early June 2009. My first blog post about the early draft (the Senate HELP Committee version) of Obamacare was on June 16 regarding the CBO assessment. Various iterations of Obamacare were proposed throughout June -August. The Obamacare legislation and mandate eventually focused on using the IRS as the enforcer.

I’d have listened to the audio myself, but the page requires SilverLight, and I’m booted on a Mac at the moment.

Irrespective of the audio content, I (a) favor Prof. Jacobson’s opinion by default, and (b) can’t figure out what the devil is going wrong with the conservative blogosphere. The candidates all suck: get over it. There is no reasonable way this audio proves two contradictory conclusions. There are a lot of unreasonable ways that people could be spreading hasty propaganda in an effort to skew results.

Don’t be hasty! Even if the intent is not evil, crapflooding has evil results. We expect that from the Left. Have your preferred candidates, but understand that, post-convention, we still have to coalesce as a team.

Hopefully the facts will shake out, and we can have a jolly round of kum-bah-yah at CPAC.

Later. . .

Via Althouse, Politico (my elbiB) has “Newt expressed support for Obama health care plan in ’09”

He also discussed the concept of a mandate:
We believe that there should be must carry – that is, everybody should either have health insurance or if you’re an absolute libertarian, we would allow you to post a bond, but we would not allow people to be free riders failing to insure themselves and then showing up at the emergency room with no means of payment.

So, in defense of Newt, as Jacobson notes: “At the time of Newt’s presentation, in May 2009, the earliest versions of Obamacare had not yet been released. Newt specifically notes that the details of what would be proposed were unknown and (at 27:00) the process was still in the “wish list press conference stage.””

Has Newt Gingrich sinned against the Holy Spirit? Will conservatives eschew Newt at the ballot box, only to fall into the warm embrace of CthulhuRomBamaCare?

If we’re that dumb, we deserve #OccupyResoluteDesk. Go, Rick Santorum!

In other can-we-please-think-about-what-we-are-saying news, Maggie’s Notebook has a detailed look at the Allen West redistricting saga. Districts are some of the most sausage-y things going, as parties gerrymander for fun and lock-in to maximize political power. To contend that a former governor and POTUS candidate from another state is having any direct affect on the Florida redistricting is just a little far out there.
I have no facts, but a couple of points to ponder are that West may have the best chance to raise funds to go for some of that blue territory, or West may secretly not be interested in swimming in the political septic tank any longer; or this was seen as the most likely means of maximizing GOP seats; or West lost a golf bet.
Political parties suck. Given the opportunity to be radical, I would have a mapping algorithm contest to see who can publish the shortest and most elegant algorithm for calculating the most even districts in each state. Let there be as many useful inputs for the calculation as desired, but let it be Open Source and the data freely available.
The more we do to make politics transparent and freely accessible to all, the more participation we are likely to enjoy, and the less of a godforsaken, graft-driven racket we’ll endure.
More at Legal Insurrection, mostly blowing away my speculation.

And, just when you thought the suction had hit hard vacuum, via Daily Pundit, none less than The World’s Most Tired Warhorse drops a few more road apples:

“We’ve got to stop the debates. Enough with the debates because they are driving up our candidates, all of them, unfavorabilities.”

Buzz off and go park in the jacuzzi, man (a completely watered-down version of my actual sentiment). We don’t need less debates, we need more! We need actual moderators (say, conservative bloggers) and substantive debate on the issues like the Federal Reserve.

Not needed: the Ruling Class Overlords who kinda created this mess telling us to sit down and shut up. The “we may be incompetent, but we’re all you’ve got” argument belongs in Brussells, Senator McCain. Why don’t you consider going there. Permanently. With the rest of your ilk.

Category: Allen West, Newt Gingrich

Comments

51 Responses to “Madness On The Conservative Front”

  1. benning
    January 31st, 2012 @ 8:19 am

    Apropos of nothing … I was third in line at the polls, this morning in Florida, and cast my primary vote for Santorum. 

  2. Phil in Englewood
    January 31st, 2012 @ 8:27 am

    “I’d have listened to the audio myself, but the page requires SilverLight, and I’m booted on a Mac at the moment.”

    I’m booted on a Mac, system 10.6.8, and Silverlight 5 works fine…

  3. Adjoran
    January 31st, 2012 @ 8:42 am

    Trust Jacobsen at your own risk, he’s gone all out for Gingrich which requires checking reality at the door.

    Remember that dumb clip of the Florida AG that Hoft claimed proved Romney wanted “RomneyCare” for every state?  You and Ace called BS quick on that, not Jacobsen.

    The reason only a handful of those who know and worked with Newt support him is because the hundreds of others know he’s undependable and will flame out for some pointless reason sooner or later, probably repeatedly.   It’s why conservatives were ready to toss him from the Speakership after his first two-year term, and succeeded after four.

  4. Allen West Redistricted: Democrats Target Allen West – GOP Targets Allen West – Details: Romney Involved? | Maggie's Notebook
    January 31st, 2012 @ 9:07 am

    […] no one objected. Let’s not let that happen. Thanks to Gulag Bound. Hot Air has thoughts. Linked at The Other McCain in election news about Newt Gingrich – did he or didn’t he? Linked at Doug Ross in Larwyn’s Linx – thank you! Posted by Maggie @ Maggie’s […]

  5. Maggie@MaggiesNotebook
    January 31st, 2012 @ 10:13 am

    On Allen West: Florida has gained two House seats. Why would we not want those to be Republican (as they are drawn on the new map), and keep West’s District 22 Republican as well? Why would want to give up a seat when we don’t have too? Why would we remove large Republican sections of the district that are in line with demographics and add those that are not, when it isn’t necessary to do so, even considering their Voting Rights Bill and Amendments 5 and 6?

    Perhaps the GOP thinks it has a chance to run a moderate and keep the seat, and rid themselves of Allen West. 

    The District does not have to be redistricted as is proposed. Someone is making the decision for no good conservative reason.

    I really appreciate the link! Thank you. 

  6. richard mcenroe
    January 31st, 2012 @ 10:25 am

    ”
    Newt specifically notes that the details of what would be proposed were unknown and (at 27:00) the process was still in the “wish list press conference stage.””

    But Newt had that wish and god forbid he gets elected, then we get to pay for it.

  7. Evi L. Bloggerlady
    January 31st, 2012 @ 10:46 am

    Good for you.  

    George Soros:  Not much difference between Obama and Romney…  Notes Gingrich would likely have to have Santorum as his running mate…

  8. Anonymous
    January 31st, 2012 @ 10:51 am

    If West has, in fact, been relegated to a Dem-majority district, let’s hope he ups and moves to where he can challenge a weak RINO. After all, it’s a standard military tactic to go after the enemy’s weak spot. The unfortunate thing is that by this scenario the Republican establishment in Florida must be considered the enemy of conservatives.

  9. ThePaganTemple
    January 31st, 2012 @ 11:03 am

    I wonder how many files Holder’s Justice Department has on the ol’ Flip Flopper. You know, your hero Romney. Files detailing the evidence of his bribery of RNC officials, state Republican precinct chairs all over the country, Rance Priebus, Ann Coulter, and so many others. I wonder how long it will take before all of this information is “leaked” to the press. You think maybe two or three weeks before the first Tuesday in November?

  10. richard mcenroe
    January 31st, 2012 @ 11:07 am

    You EEEEEEvil Obama voter you! *g*

    Just saving Adjoran a trip.

  11. richard mcenroe
    January 31st, 2012 @ 11:08 am

    Breaking news: Prez Newt locked out of Oval Office after VP sprinkles holy water across threshold…

  12. Datechguy's Blog » Blog Archive » Learn from it, but let it go! » Datechguy's Blog
    January 31st, 2012 @ 11:45 am

    […] Smitty gets it: Share this:PrintRedditDiggStumbleUponEmailFacebook opinions powered by SendLove.to […]

  13. Jeffrey Keenan
    January 31st, 2012 @ 11:47 am

    *GASP!*

    Well, I looked, and I looked, but could not find Sarah Palin on the ballot! :O

  14. Quartermaster
    January 31st, 2012 @ 12:19 pm

    Smitty, go easy on McCain. He can’t help it if he’s insane. It was that stay in hanoi Hilton that did it to him.

    The insane part is only half in jest. Many of his former Hilton mates are of the opinion he’s insane.

  15. Guest
    January 31st, 2012 @ 12:42 pm

    Yeah, good reply. You’ve convinced me, really you have. That’s telling her. Righteous, bro. Logic and common sense win again.

  16. Guest
    January 31st, 2012 @ 12:43 pm

    Unlike Romney, who didn’t just “wish” for it- he made his wishes reality.

  17. DaveO
    January 31st, 2012 @ 12:58 pm

    Gonna be a whole lotta folks steaming mad at each other at the next conservative bloggers conference. This is a win for Reid and Pelosi, and of course Obama.

  18. DaveO
    January 31st, 2012 @ 1:02 pm

    It is entirely possible that Allen West wins another term in his district. He’s a fighter and a winner.

    When West wins re-election, it’s a safe bet that he will return the GOP’s loyalty in kind. 

  19. EBL
    January 31st, 2012 @ 1:11 pm

    Okay?  

  20. EBL
    January 31st, 2012 @ 1:15 pm

    I know Newt is a very flawed candidate.  What you are missing is so is Mitt.  While this Florida stuff is OTT, a drawn out primary process could result in Newt, Santorum, and Paul taking enough delegates to bring this to the floor.  Let Romney make his case he can lead a unified party, because if he can’t he is going to lose the general election.  I could care less about the primaries, I want to win the general and I want to win with a candidate who will be more conservative than Obama and will work to reverse Obamacare.  We need a GOP president and a GOP house and senate to do that.  

  21. Meanwhile, in the GOP Primary, the Madness Continues « Andrew J. Patrick
    January 31st, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

    […] don’t share the panic over the continuing Story of a Primary Gone to the Dogs. In 2008, we spent the entire winter and spring watching Hillary and Obama slug it out.  Limbaugh […]

  22. Calvin Freiburger
    January 31st, 2012 @ 1:48 pm

    Jacobson’s defense of Newt is a classic case of distinction without difference. *Technically,* Newt didn’t back “the Obamacare mandate”…but he did say that a federal individual mandate should be part of what later became Obamacare.

  23. NVA Patriot
    January 31st, 2012 @ 1:51 pm

    The Mitt-stablishment will not be supported by enough activists that every close district save Allen West adn a few others will be a lose.

    Kiss Mr. Macaca goodby if Mitt’s at the top of the ticket.

    In the VA Primary, I and my family plus many others in our circle of friends are voting Ron Paul to deny Mitt VA’s delegates.

  24. Pathfinder's wife
    January 31st, 2012 @ 2:15 pm

    Which of course brings up the thought in my conspiracy laden mind “what is that wicked old bastard up to now?”.

  25. ThePaganTemple
    January 31st, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

    He can always run as an independent.

  26. ThePaganTemple
    January 31st, 2012 @ 2:37 pm

    Good for you. I’ll probably be voting for Paul as well in Kentucky’s primary. In the general there’s a good chance I’m going to be voting for Gary Johnson, or whoever is on the Libertarian ballot. I’m not a Libertarian, but what the hell. If I’m real good and pissed off I might even vote for Obama. The Republicans have been handed a golden opportunity, what amounts to a world-class gourmet meal on a golden platter with silver spoons, and what do they do? Shit on it!

  27. WyBlog - Tunicated Tuesday Turmoil, from Florida flows flagitious flummery
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:08 pm

    Tunicated Tuesday Turmoil, from Florida flows flagitious flummery…

    Every time I open Facebook now I’m bombarded by zealots. Smitty calls for a truce….

  28. Anonymous
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:13 pm

    “Technically” here is the basic handout.  “Replace” of “repeal and replace” is something I put bets on Gingrich spearheading effectively for conservatives.   Santorum or Paul, not so much.  Gingrich, Santorum and perhaps Paul would “Repeal”.

    In box 3, 100% coverage is a goal not a mandate.  (“New System of Health Justice” is about Tort Reform.)

    And then you get to figure out how to finance it, box 4.

    However, Gingrich did agree with Obama that the negotiations should be on CSPAN.

    http://intermountainhealthcare.org/health-resources/SpeakersBureau/healthydialogues/Documents/healthconf.pdf

  29. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:16 pm

    Obviously, you’re not Catholic Richard: the Holy Water would repel Newton Leroy and burn his skin if he touched it [see: The Exorcist].

  30. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:17 pm

    You too, huh?

  31. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:17 pm

    Aren’t Write-In’s possible in Florida?

  32. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:22 pm

    Adj: Professor Jacobson is an honorable man and I’ve seen no evidence to the contrary – and I say this as someone who thinks Newton Leroy is our Julius Caesar.

    This heated rhetoric from nearly everybody has gone much too far.

  33. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:23 pm

    Willard and Newton both have blood on their hands on this issue.

  34. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:24 pm

    The GOP Establishment in Florida [as it is in most states] is the enemy of the ‘Outlaws’ and outsiders [see: TEA Party Movemnet, The].

  35. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:25 pm

    I’ll be very interested to see what happens at CPAC – I wish I could go.

  36. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:26 pm

    From your keyboard to God’s Ears.

  37. Bob Belvedere
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:27 pm

    One would hope all the Not-Romney folks for for Ron Paul in Virginia to send a message.  I would, if I had the pleasure of living there.

  38. Pathfinder's wife
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:40 pm

    of course, remember who you are talking to here

  39. Pathfinder's wife
    January 31st, 2012 @ 3:43 pm

    Care for some nose goblins?

    Uh, rethink the voting explicitly for Obama — I don’t think you really want to go that far (there is a big difference between the consumption of nasal crusties and willing consort with succubi).

  40. Yes, They All Suck, Indeed - The POH Diaries
    January 31st, 2012 @ 4:14 pm

    […] to the individual mandate in Obamacare. That’s neither here nor there; the real point of Smitty’s post should be this (emphasis mine): I’d have listened to the audio myself, but the page requires […]

  41. ThePaganTemple
    January 31st, 2012 @ 5:16 pm

    Care for some nose goblins?

    I think I would prefer to have my life-force sexually drained by a female demonic entity than go the route of the booger-eater. Bear in mind, you don’t necessarily have to be a 9/11 Truther, Stormfronter or Klansman to be a Paul supporter, it just makes you more likely to be one. There are though legitimate reasons to vote for Paul, though as I said, I would have to be very extremely pissed off to vote for Obama. It would be the closest thing to criminal insanity I could think of.

  42. ThePaganTemple
    January 31st, 2012 @ 6:23 pm

    That would be a real embarrassment to Romney and to the Republican Establishment. But I’d be willing almost to lay odds they wouldn’t admit it was a purposeful slap in the face, because the RINO Establishment just isn’t made that way. They’d try to portray Tennesseans as racist Klan types. If anybody could be capable of costing us Tennessee in the general election, it would be our own party elites pissing off the Republican voters with such bullshit.

  43. ThePaganTemple
    January 31st, 2012 @ 6:25 pm

    Of course I meant Virginia, I don’t know what made me say Tennessee. But come to think of it, the GOP Establishment could very damn easily cost us Virginia, which we should win back this year.

  44. Pathfinder's wife
    January 31st, 2012 @ 6:41 pm

    what if the female entity looks like a certain…athletically statured female sporting newly purchased French lingerie (of dubious taste possibly)

    and she enters through your nose?

  45. Anonymous
    January 31st, 2012 @ 7:30 pm

    Maybe he’s actually interested in makin’ Wookie…

  46. Pathfinder's wife
    January 31st, 2012 @ 11:22 pm

    SDN — are you sure there is a piano out there up to the task of that?

  47. K-Bob
    February 1st, 2012 @ 7:19 am

    It went “too far” a while back.  But we’re just cool under pressure at Stacy’s site.

  48. K-Bob
    February 1st, 2012 @ 7:43 am

    People were saying Santorum was, “for the individual mandate,” too.  I read the transcripts provided, and what I saw was that Santorum wanted people who wanted insurance  to buy their own, instead of having employers do it.

    As for those who expect care for free, I don’t think ending that practice is equivalent to forcing people to buy insurance.

    As I see it, the “individual mandate” is when the government forces you to buy something you don’t want.

    Nothing from Gingrish or Santorum goes quite that far.  More like “if you expect coverage, then BUY coverage”.  That’s a big difference.

    (EDIT: Gingrish? Prease.)

  49. Bob Belvedere
    February 1st, 2012 @ 8:14 am

    BRAIN BLEACH STAT!

  50. Bob Belvedere
    February 1st, 2012 @ 8:15 am

    They could cost us a good number of states if the conservatives stay home and concentrate on the Congressional races.