The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Among the Reasons For Discomfort When Some Call the US a Christian Nation

Posted on | January 14, 2010 | 17 Comments

by Smitty

The Future of Capitalism mentions a Watertown Daily Times report about the Amish in the context of health care:

The Amish, as well as some other religious sects, are covered by a “religious conscience” exemption, which allows people with religious objections to insurance to opt out of the mandate. It is in both the House and Senate versions of the bill, making its appearance in the final version routine unless there are last-minute objections.

TFOC goes on to note that ” Congressional aides said the exemption is based on a carve-out the Amish have had from Social Security and Medicare taxes since the 1960s.” Congressional aides appear to be close but inaccurate: Public Law 761 of 01Jan55 appears the proper reference, emphasis mine:

The Amish people maintain positive religious teachings and attitudes toward helping all their needy members. They are deeply sensitive to any forces that would erode the principle of self-sufficiency in caring for their old people, widows, and orphans. Self-sufficiency is the Amish answer to government aid programs such as far subsidies and social security payments. They comply with crop reduction programs but refuse payments for raising fewer crops. Amish leaders have repeatedly gone to Washington to seek freedom from federal aid. It is not that they are opposed to paying taxes, but they are opposed to any form of dependency on government.
The Amish opposition to compulsory insurance was widely publicised when social security benefits were extended (Public Law 761, January 1, 1955) to cover self-employed persons, including farmers. A delegation of Amish bishops made numerous trips to Washington seeking exemption from the tax and its benefits. Before congressional committees they contended that “Old-Age Survivors Insurance is abridging and infringing to our religious freedom.” In support of their stand they quoted the Bible: “if any provide not…for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel (I Tim 5:8). To pay social security tax, the Amish say, is to admit that the government has a responsibility for aged Amish members, and to admit this is to deny the faith. They know that this alliance with government would make future generations dependent on the government. Federal means of providing for these needs are viewed as purely secular, if not sinful.

I’m in full support of the Amish position, though I’d refer more to the latter half of Matthew 22:21 “…Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s.”

Two millenia ago, they explicitly deified Caesars. One falls short of guessing what the Sage’s reaction would be to the modern Caesar’s attempt at ‘soft deification‘ through legislative means, but the review may not have been positive. While those arguing a social justice approach are not entirely without a point, that noble point seems as feckless as Tank Man getting flattened by $12+T worth of Caesar’s debt:

tank_man

Tank Man is Every Man

No, it would seem that a truly Christian nation would view debt as immoral. Also, allowing domestic social programs to fail upward to the federal level. And allowing a thieving Caesar to coerce a rendering of the charity due God to Caesar’s secular self.

Aside: Stacy is on the road again. While some bloggers find explicit funding requests annoying, you can support Stacy’s shoeleather-on-the-ground reporting knowing that every dime you pay the man is turned into actual, value-added reporting. I don’t think the picture on Daphne’s site is Stacy, however: RSM has a Toshiba, IIRC.

Category: Health Care, Politics, Shoe Leather Fund

Comments

17 Responses to “Among the Reasons For Discomfort When Some Call the US a Christian Nation”

  1. Ran / Si Vis Pacem
    January 14th, 2010 @ 2:34 pm

    Thank you, Smitty.

  2. Ran / Si Vis Pacem
    January 14th, 2010 @ 9:34 am

    Thank you, Smitty.

  3. Joe
    January 14th, 2010 @ 2:52 pm

    Thanks.

    While this is certainly a Christian nation (becaue the vast majority of people are Christian in it) it is also a secular nation founded on the principals of the Enlightment and reason. Eccessive debt is both immoral and stupid.

  4. Joe
    January 14th, 2010 @ 9:52 am

    Thanks.

    While this is certainly a Christian nation (becaue the vast majority of people are Christian in it) it is also a secular nation founded on the principals of the Enlightment and reason. Eccessive debt is both immoral and stupid.

  5. pivey
    January 14th, 2010 @ 4:21 pm

    This is a Christian nation regardless of the number of Christians in it. Our Constitution was founded on the principles in the Bible, which in fact are complementary with reason because the Word is Truth. When our people stop believing in truth and reason, our Constitution will become nothing more than a collection of archaic words that tyrants ignore.

    I guess the Amish have more foresight than the rest of Christendom in America; with their “Be ye separate” code, they have grandfathered themselves protection for everything Washington can think of.

  6. pivey
    January 14th, 2010 @ 11:21 am

    This is a Christian nation regardless of the number of Christians in it. Our Constitution was founded on the principles in the Bible, which in fact are complementary with reason because the Word is Truth. When our people stop believing in truth and reason, our Constitution will become nothing more than a collection of archaic words that tyrants ignore.

    I guess the Amish have more foresight than the rest of Christendom in America; with their “Be ye separate” code, they have grandfathered themselves protection for everything Washington can think of.

  7. smitty
    January 14th, 2010 @ 4:26 pm

    Your second paragraph is fascinating. Do you think the Amish more or less Christian for their rejection of Caesar, or do you simply reject the premise of the question?

  8. smitty
    January 14th, 2010 @ 11:26 am

    Your second paragraph is fascinating. Do you think the Amish more or less Christian for their rejection of Caesar, or do you simply reject the premise of the question?

  9. Joe
    January 14th, 2010 @ 4:59 pm

    Pat Robertson is very un-Christian. Christ was not about doling out goodies to the good and punishments on the bad–well not in this world. Robertson is the flip side of the more cheerful Schuler and Olsteen.

  10. Joe
    January 14th, 2010 @ 11:59 am

    Pat Robertson is very un-Christian. Christ was not about doling out goodies to the good and punishments on the bad–well not in this world. Robertson is the flip side of the more cheerful Schuler and Olsteen.

  11. El Cerdo Ignatius
    January 14th, 2010 @ 6:26 pm

    I wonder if I could cite a Catholic objection to government insurance, and thereby join the Amish on the outside of federal healthcare debacle.

    Oh, wait… I live in Canada. I already live the whole federal healthcare debacle thing. Run, America, run! It’s too late fore me, but save yourselves!

  12. El Cerdo Ignatius
    January 14th, 2010 @ 1:26 pm

    I wonder if I could cite a Catholic objection to government insurance, and thereby join the Amish on the outside of federal healthcare debacle.

    Oh, wait… I live in Canada. I already live the whole federal healthcare debacle thing. Run, America, run! It’s too late fore me, but save yourselves!

  13. pivey
    January 14th, 2010 @ 9:09 pm

    I don’t see the Amish as having rejected Caesar because they abide by the laws of land, and I assume pay property and income tax. When the Social Security and Medicare programs began, the Amish made it clear that to participate in these programs was against their religious principles protected by the 1st amendment. This makes them not “more Christian”, but more diligent Christians.

    You see, taking care of the poor and needy and each other is what Jesus told us to do. I’ve been apart of many small Churches where after that was preached we’d all look around and say, “Great, let’s go find some poor folks to help!” When you look around, you find that they are all on welfare, already getting food stamps and don’t really have any need of you. Exceptions to those in immediate disasters and chronically homeless or mentally challenged. This has caused the churches in this country to be adrift.

    I remember my grandmother telling that before FDR, her family would spend all day Sunday visiting shut-ins and bringing food to those in need. I also remember reading in the John Adams biography that when his dad was a deacon, a widow who had nowhere to go was to be taken in by him and his wife and Mrs. Adams, John’ mama, pitched a royal fit about it.

    But you see, in this country the burden of helping those in need fell on the churches, who would get to know each individuals situation, whether they needed mental help, moral help, or were just conning the church. The government has no way to judge what everyone’s individual situation is.

    Anyhow, I guess I should start my own blog- gee whiz. I guess to summarize, the Amish are so far behind, they are ahead.

  14. pivey
    January 14th, 2010 @ 4:09 pm

    I don’t see the Amish as having rejected Caesar because they abide by the laws of land, and I assume pay property and income tax. When the Social Security and Medicare programs began, the Amish made it clear that to participate in these programs was against their religious principles protected by the 1st amendment. This makes them not “more Christian”, but more diligent Christians.

    You see, taking care of the poor and needy and each other is what Jesus told us to do. I’ve been apart of many small Churches where after that was preached we’d all look around and say, “Great, let’s go find some poor folks to help!” When you look around, you find that they are all on welfare, already getting food stamps and don’t really have any need of you. Exceptions to those in immediate disasters and chronically homeless or mentally challenged. This has caused the churches in this country to be adrift.

    I remember my grandmother telling that before FDR, her family would spend all day Sunday visiting shut-ins and bringing food to those in need. I also remember reading in the John Adams biography that when his dad was a deacon, a widow who had nowhere to go was to be taken in by him and his wife and Mrs. Adams, John’ mama, pitched a royal fit about it.

    But you see, in this country the burden of helping those in need fell on the churches, who would get to know each individuals situation, whether they needed mental help, moral help, or were just conning the church. The government has no way to judge what everyone’s individual situation is.

    Anyhow, I guess I should start my own blog- gee whiz. I guess to summarize, the Amish are so far behind, they are ahead.

  15. Dandapani
    January 16th, 2010 @ 1:39 am

    Thank God this is a Christian nation and I can be a Hindu. Aum.

  16. Dandapani
    January 15th, 2010 @ 8:39 pm

    Thank God this is a Christian nation and I can be a Hindu. Aum.

  17. Among the Reasons For Discomfort When Some Call the US a Christian Nation II : The Other McCain
    February 2nd, 2010 @ 7:53 pm

    […] Nation IIPosted on | February 2, 2010 | No Commentsby SmittyThe previous installment to this occasional series had to do with ObamaCare. It noted the fact that the rest of the Christians in the country are […]