The Other McCain

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MISSOURI GONE WILD: Caucuses Disrupted by Ron Paul Supporters

Posted on | March 17, 2012 | 53 Comments

Libertarians or anarchists? The NY Times reports, you decide:

ST. PETERS, Mo. — Voters here in St. Charles County may not get a say in who will be the next Republican presidential nominee after a disorderly caucus on Saturday caused organizers to adjourn before delegates were selected.
The unrest began as the caucus at Francis Howell North High School was called to order more than a hour late, then delayed again when a member of the crowd refused to put away a video camera, as required by the rules outlined by the local Republican Party.
“People attended the meeting with an agenda,” said Eugene Dokes, chairman of the St. Charles County Republican Central Committee. “When that happens, it’s really hard to accept the authority of the room.”
Members of crowd began shouting, “We make the rules!” among other chants as organizers tried to regain control, which they did briefly. But the shouting quickly escalated when it came time to appoint a chair of the caucus.
The police were called in, and two people were arrested on trespassing charges after being asked to leave when the meeting was then called to an early close.

This is what the Paulbot Blog-Troll Caucus is like in real life.

UPDATE: The Kansas City Star:

Confusion and contention also marred several other crowded Republican gatherings, the Associated Press reported.
In Clay County, arguments between Paul supporters and others became so intense that the caucus chairman threatened to have voters removed by force.
Backers of the Texas congressman said they were upset their views weren’t being heard. “We’re just a little frustrated because caucuses are supposed to be run by a very strict set of rules,” said Paul supporter John Findlay, who lost his bid to become caucus chairman. “We raised a number of points of order, points of information, points of parliamentary inquiry, many of which have been ignored.”

These bogus “parliamentary” tactics are straight out of the radical playbook: Purposeful disruptions, intended to delay the normal procedure of events and provoke confrontations, with the hope of making such a farce of the meeting that regular citizens are discouraged from participating.

Go to a mental ward, give a psychotic a copy of Roberts Rules of Order, and after he’s released, he can begin a promising new career as a Ron Paul activist — as soon as he goes off his meds, that is.

UPDATE II: Shane Vander Hart:

I’m tired of the drama that Paul is causing when he has zero chance of winning anything.

Look, I love it that Paul gets college kids excited about the the concept of liberty. I’ve got a profound libertarian streak myself and, in fact, voted for Bob Barr for president in 2008. But obnoxiousness is practically an ideology to some of these kooks. Disrupting meetings with “point of order” gibberish is akin to those wacko tax protesters who claim they have some sovereign right that recognizes no higher authority than the county sheriff.

They don’t have a political philosophy, they have a personality disorder.

UPDATE III: ABC News on the Charles County debacle:

[Police] arrested two Paul supporters and ended the caucuses early. A joint-jurisdictional police helicopter arrived on the scene. Kipers said about 10 officers arrived in total.
“Two people were arrested for trespassing after receiving numerous warnings to leave the school property,” the St. Peters police said in a press release. “Both subjects were transported to St. Peters Justice Center where they were booked for Trespassing and released on a summons.”
The St. Peters police identified the Paul supporters as Brent Safford, 45, of O’Fallon, Mo., and Kenneth Suitter, 55, of St. Charles.

OK, somebody Google these characters and see what you can find out about them. I’ll guess that if you inquire among local Republicans, you’d find these two are widely regarded as obnoxious fanatics.

UPDATE IV: By the way, hat-tip to Dan Collins. I called him while we were out on our family excursion today and he shared the news.

Bob McCarty blogs about “The St. Patrick’s Day Massacre” in Charles County, complete with video of Stafford’s arrest.

UPDATE V: Duane Lester at All American Blogger describes his experiences at the Nodaway County caucus:

At this point, the establishment GOP types in the room were aghast. Who were these people? Who do they support? One woman said, “I’ve never seen them before and I’ve lived here for 50 years!” . . .
One of the members of the county GOP committee said to me that some of these people had been working and organizing and planning with the GOP for years and had never seen the people who were dictating the terms of the caucus. They were upset because they saw the fruits of their labor being taken away from them and used for an agenda they didn’t agree with.

Read the whole thing.


  • Taxpayer1234

    Yep, those Paulbots sure love them some mob rule! 

  • steveegg

    The PaulNut-Romney Alliance is paying off.

  • timmycav73




    I fail to understand how Romney’s name got mixed up in this???  Geeze!  The Paulbots have been saying for WEEKS they will get the delegates, guess this is how they planned to do it…backfired tho!  Ron Paul should DROP OUT now!!!

  • Adjoran

    So they were removed for trying to “disrupt” the meetings by insisting the rules be followed, but they weren’t allowed to videotape a public meeting – because it’s against the rules.

    Sorry, my default position is that a rule against videotaping a public meeting has no honest purpose, but only serves to keep the actions of the officials under cover.  What are they afraid of?

    A major party caucus conducted on public property seems like a public event to me. 

  • SDN

     Says the chief site supporter of the guy who ultimately benefits from the disruption…

    A political party is as much a private organization as the Boy Scouts, and can set rules no matter where it holds the meeting.

  • sanddust

    No they can’t, SDN. There are federal voting laws in place that they must follow. They themselves must also follow their written rules. This is what they did just recently. Youtube this: 

    Youtube this: Athens-Clarke County, GA Republican Delegate FraudTHAT is why Dr. Paul supporters want to videotape. I hope they file election fraud charges against the republican chairs.

  • newrouter

     “A major party caucus conducted on public property seems like a public event to me. ”

    i’ll be crashing your next picnic at a state park

  • richard mcenroe

     The Romney campaign has been pitching the meme  that the primary was nonbinding and they had the right to go after those delegates in the caucuses.

    If you announce you’re going to rob an old lady, and the old lady gets robbed, don’t blame us for looking at you.

  • Joseph Fein
  • richard mcenroe

    Here in Los Angeles County when the Paulies lost their effort to take over LAGOP back before the last election, they simply declared themselves the REAL GOP, even using the party logos.  Took a court action to get them to stop.

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  • newrouter

     “I hope they file election fraud charges against the republican chairs.”

    norluapbots = obamabots = thugs

  • John in MO

    The Ron Paul folks should realize they are not wanted in the GOP.  Go home.  We don’t even want your vote in November because you all are fools. 

  • Thane_Eichenauer

    I imagine that Ron Paul would recommend that everybody should follow the rules.  However exclaiming in all caps with thinly disguised curse words isn’t a persuasive methodology for those of us who are amenable to following the rules.

  • Tom Wehrle

    And this, on a whole (what took place, this blog, and the comments here below) are why the GOP is a complete joke. They can’t figure it out. Santorum will not win in Nov any more than Ron Paul or even Romney (even though he’s the best bet). You all can’t even figure out a way to be civil. Lame.

  • Testor

    You Santorum groupies do understand that Ricky’s only plan to get the nomination is to steal it in a smoke-filled room?  Right? 

    He plans on coming into the Convention with LESS delegates than Romney, but hopes to convince conservative activists to ignore the clear will of the GOP and throw Romney off the top of the ticket.

    So excuse me if I’m grinning ear to ear that other equally delusional, cheating bastards derailed your little “in the bag” Caucus.

  • Adjoran

     Where in any of these stories do you find Romney supporters?  I do see several cases of Paul supporters claiming they were shut out by Santorum’s supporters.  I do see the police being used to remove apparently peaceful attendees.

  • Adjoran

     So you approve of having people raising points of order removed?  Videotaping the proceedings arrested?  Just to be clear.

  • Adjoran

     If the state voting laws apply to my picnic, you are welcome. 

    As a matter of fact, you are welcome even if the laws don’t apply.  And you can videotape the whole darned thing – because I have nothing to hide, unless the edges of the pie crust are burnt again.

  • Adjoran

     Yes, we already know the Santorum supporters want the libertarians out.  I give those lads the very devil (small “d” so don’t burn me at the stake) at times, but I will stand up for their rights as I would my own.

    No doubt you’ve got some Bible verse to throw at me for that.

  • Adjoran

     Well, thanks for your words of wisdom and reconciliation, I am sure we will all ponder them thoughtfully and give your ideas full due consideration in the same positive and proactive spirit in which they were offered.

    Now, f*ck off, wanker.

  • richard mcenroe

    Edited by author. Joe Fein link already posted below.

  • Adjoran

    Well, that seems over the top.  Sure, there seem to have been several instances of rancor and caucuses being shut down.  The reasons are not fully clear at this time, though. 

    We MUST insist on the full stories coming out of each instance if the process is to be credible.  Arguments, even loud and heated ones, are not unheard of at political meetings.  It takes two sides to argue, too.  Of course, if videotaping of the public proceedings were permitted there would be no controversy over WHAT happened, at least.  This is why I think the burden of justification lies with those who prohibit recording and shut down voting.

    It is not improbable that federal and state laws on voting access were violated.  If so, as with every single instance of voting fraud or tampering, it should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    It is entirely improper to assume the Paul supporters were “disruptive” to any extent beyond what any citizen is entitled to be in asserting his voting rights based upon the evidence presented here or elsewhere (that I’m aware of). 

    Party meetings can have rules, but only insofar as they do not violate any protected rights.

  • richard mcenroe

    1.  With the 1300+ votes still up in the air, the clear will of the GOP has yet to be determined, bless Rove and his little white board.

    2.  In what way precisely does asking the caucuses to assign the votes to the landslide winner count as “cheating”.

    3.  He plans on being ABLE to come in with less delegates than Romney.  That’s called “planning”.

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  • Testor

    So if Santorum comes in to the Convention with LESS delegates than Romney, he’ll of course do the right thing and concede?  Right?

    Because both he and his other delusional team mate Newt have said they’re goal is to simply deny Romney a majority, and hope they can convince enough delegates to steal it away.

    They’ve already conceded they can’t surpass Romney is delegates.  They don’t care if Mitt comes in with a 2 to 1 lead in delegates and votes, they’re still going to try and throw Romney off.

    Never mind the damage to the Party, it’s their destiny!

  • Adjoran

     I see a rant against “Paulbots” v “Paul supporters” without any evidence of any Romney connection, and little beyond allegations against the Paul people.

  • LD Jackson

     I’ll be the first to say this kind of thing is disruptive and not conducive to the process. However, I am a Ron Paul supporter and this is not how I roll. Not all of us are crazy fanatics, as you seem to believe.

  • LD Jackson

     Just because we support Ron Paul, you don’t even care if we vote for the GOP in November? I respectfully disagree with you on that, and the idea that we are all fools. I know some Ron Paul supporters have taken things a bit too far, but not all of us are fools or fanatics.

  • Beto_Ochoa

     This blog post is propaganda Stacy. I am not a supporter of any of the remaining candidates and while I like many of Congressman Paul’s ideas, I would not want him as President.
    The GOP is afraid of someone they cannot control and in this election that candidate is Congressman Ron Paul.
    I follow this all very closely and can state categorically that there have been tens of thousands of vote cast for him that have been quashed by the party. Whole counties where he has thousands turn out for a rally and not one vote recorded. His supporters in those counties report that they did indeed vote. You’ll notice that the majority of these caucus participants were Paul supporters and were going to be robbed of their votes again.There  will be an investigation of this fraud but too far after the fact to matter.
    So a corrupt system is churning out another corrupt candidate for the poor fools to choose come November.

  • Tennwriter

    What type of pie? Peach: Rhubarb: Cherry: Apple?  And the key question, ala mode?

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  • Pathfinder’s wife

    That’s the problem for libertarian types: to be an actual, responsible libertarian takes a great deal of thoughtfulness, self-abnegation (or at least self-restraint), and ethics…but the “freedom and liberty” message attracts people who are the polar opposite of such things and prefer to think, feel, and then act like fit throwing toddlers who want every piece of candy pleasurable to them.

    They will be your ruination in the end.

  • LD Jackson

     I would not disagree with you on your assessment. It is one of the reasons why Ron Paul does not attract voters at the ballot box. The actions of some of his supporters turn a lot of people off to his message.

  • Pathfinder’s wife

    That’s not the way to win elections.

    It is a mistake to shut out the libertarians completely — make the distinction between those who can conduct themselves in a thoughtful and constructive manner and those who merely buy into what they see as a free pass to get whatever they want, the civil and the uncivil as it were.  Encourage the good and discourage the bad; it goes for the party as a whole and this meeting in particular (there would be nothing wrong with videotaping, but everything wrong with it if done for dishonest and unethical intentions — and therein likely lies the rub).

  • Pathfinder’s wife

    But as long as they are doing things that might be beneficial to your particular canidate everything is swell?

    I have to ask: is this really what most Republicans want?  Is this the direction you all really want to go?

    If it is, then I think that even if you “win” you ultimately lose (unless winning only means your team’s success and not the country’s).

  • ghendric

    Wouldn’t you be pissed too if the GOP changed the rules mid stream because they didn’t like your candidate? Watch this..

  • Ken Caudll

    Are you a moron or a propagandist?


  • Bob Belvedere

    Look all: the question that has not been answered is: Is this kind of meeting considered ‘public’ and subject to open-meeting laws or is it considered a ‘private’ meeting held by a private group.

    Someone should research Missouri Law and find out.

  • Bob Belvedere

    Well put.  And I say that as a Rick Santorum supporter.

  • Bob Belvedere

    Actually, Stacy is one of the Inner Circle Templars of the VRWC. 

  • ThePaganTemple


  • Taxpayer1234

    Robert’s Rules of Order is NOT to be used as a weapon. Calling “point of order” to nitpick and making requests for rules changes AFTER the rules have been read is merely a tactic to start chaos. That’s exactly what the Paulbots did. And according to the GOP locals, had the Paulbots actually been involved in the planning of the caucus–not just showing up on caucus day to raise hell–they could have gotten their “points of order” and requests for rules changes heard.

  • Quartermaster

    Romney’s nomination will severely damage the party. Going into Tampa with the intent, and ability, to contest the convention is not unethical. Seeing how Mittens is acting on the stump makes me cheer Santorum, frankly.

    If by damage teh party you mean that the Rockefeller wing will stay home, that’s to be expected. They demand loyalty from us, but, like the rest of the leftists, refuse to give it when they don’t get their way. 

    McCain was their idea of a tantrum, and now it’s Mittens. Frankly, I expect to lose the WH this fall because all the establishment knows how to do is lose. If Mittens wins it will be by sheer luck.

  • Quartermaster

    Santorum’s attitude towards Paul supporters is foolish. There has long been a strong Libertarian streak among conservatives, and that’s quite normal. A conservative movement without would not be conservative. But, it would please Santorum who is just another Neoconservative.

  • mrdthree

    cool blogsite. Cant disagree too vehemently since I am only an occasional vistor. But what are you doing to prevent too big to fail? What are you doing to prevent permanent debt slavery?