The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

The Quotable Andrew Klavan

Posted on | February 23, 2015 | 100 Comments

by Smitty

Here is some wisdom worth capturing (emphasis mine):

Battered by the religious wars of the Reformation, making adjustments to a global economy and multi-cultured nations, the West has slowly become diffident in defense of its central faith. And there is some wisdom in that. Christianity is a religion, to paraphrase St. Paul, that frees us for freedom, and faith in Christ must be chosen freely to be fully realized. But to move from that position — which calls for intellectual rigor, unfettered debate and honest proselytism — to indiscriminate acceptance of all creeds as equally worthwhile is an error that does the world more harm than good.

Whenever I hear someone announce that “All religions are a path to God!” I wonder how it would work if you applied such “tolerance” to, say, medicine or science. “All medicines are a path to health! You take antibiotics, I cut the head off a chicken and dance under the full moon, really what’s the difference as long as we both believe it will make us well?” Or “All science is a path to progress! You invent an iPhone, I invent a weaponized disease, it’s all science, man, it’s all great!”

When you put it this way, it becomes clear that the idea that all religions are equally worthwhile is essentially an atheist creed. To say All religions are a path to God is really saying, No religion is a path to God.  There is no God, so what difference does your religion make? When something is true, when it is factual, when it is real, it excludes other options. The world can’t be both flat and round. When you accept the roundness of it, you can no longer entertain its flatness. It’s one or the other.

If God is the Christian God of love, he is not the Allah of Isis.

Indeed, there is one true North, and doing rudderless doughnuts, while passing occasionally through the only valid course, is foolishness.


100 Responses to “The Quotable Andrew Klavan”

  1. Evi L. Bloggerlady
    February 24th, 2015 @ 5:34 pm

    It depends how you do it Neo. If a person shares their faith with me sincerely, I assume it is because they deem me worthy of saving–so it is a complement (even if I am not interested). If it is presented as the equivalent of an Amway pitch…it is not so complementary.

  2. DeadMessenger
    February 24th, 2015 @ 5:35 pm

    No, I don’t consider it rude at all. In fact, I would welcome it, and excitedly look forward to it. It would give me an opportunity to ask him why he believes the way he does, and then speak to that.

  3. Evi L. Bloggerlady
    February 24th, 2015 @ 5:38 pm

    We are talking past each other, I agree he was talking prospectively. What Jesus was warning of was false prophets.

    Jesus’ warning was spot on. We see them all the time.

  4. DeadMessenger
    February 24th, 2015 @ 6:20 pm

    Maybe Proverbs 26:11 applies to our persistent friend Neo: “As a dog returns to its vomit, so fools repeat their folly.”

  5. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:14 pm

    Here’s an example that is often overlooked. Jews might accept Jesus as a messiah (anointed one), but not as a Savior. Insisting that it’s all part of one Judeo-Christian tradition can be very insulting to a Jew.

    Many other faiths aren’t about sharing or saving someone. It’s a completely different viewpoint.

  6. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:17 pm

    Except he’s not friendly.

    He’s insisting your faith is not real.

    No matter what you say, no matter what logic and what reasoning you use, he refuses your arguments.

    He’s a “bright” and you aren’t. Therefore you don’t know anything about faith and religion.

  7. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:19 pm

    You chose to refute the quote because Jefferson was not a Christian.

    The question remains.

    Does that make him less of a man?

  8. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:22 pm

    “I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people along any particular path.”
    — Jiddu Krishnamurti

  9. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:26 pm

    I answered the question. It’s simply part of the straw man you are erecting. The question is also absurd and stupid.

  10. Evi L. Bloggerlady
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:26 pm

    I am not threatened by other people defending their faith or trying to persuade me…provided they are not cutting my head off to do it.

  11. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:28 pm

    You can make any appeal to authority you wish. Krishnamurti was chasing the same ridiculous rhetorical tail you love to chase.

  12. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:28 pm

    At best, by your own beliefs, you are a messenger.

    Since you seem to dwell on brimstone so much, I’d say you’re a flawed one.

    It’s about the love, remember?

  13. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:30 pm

    A false Messiah and a false prophet are two different things. We do see false prophets, and we have been warned about them, but Christ was talking about false Messiahs, a person coming who claimed to be what Jews understood to be the Messiah. A Christian would call such a person a false Christ, and we have seen plenty of those as well.

  14. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:32 pm

    No, I’m too busy changing new skins for old.

  15. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:32 pm

    As I have pointed out before God is a God of Love, but also a God of Justice. He has extended amnesty from His wrath in this age, and you can accept the amnesty now, or later you will get the wrath.

    By you lights warning of God’s wrath is not an act of love. You have an exceedingly strange view of what love is.

  16. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:34 pm

    Why should they defend their faith?

    Isn’t that between them and the Divine?

  17. cargosquid
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:36 pm


  18. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:37 pm

    The question is at the core of this debate.

    Go read the Jefferson quote again.

    If the other guy didn’t hurt you or take your stuff, it shouldn’t matter.

    He doesn’t have to live up to the rules of your faith.

    You do.

  19. DeadMessenger
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:39 pm

    Been there, done that. So I say, “Thanks for talking to me, sir. You have a nice day now”, then I go on my way. I’ve also had such people thank me for talking to them, so go figure.

  20. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:40 pm

    So if it didn’t come from a Christian, you don’t want to hear it?

  21. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:43 pm

    The question may be central to what you are calling a “debate” in your warped mind, but that’s as far as it goes. The question is absurd and stupid.

    God will allow you to live your life any way you choose to live it. In the end, however, however, if you refuse to say to Him “they will be done,” He will say to you when you stand fore your final judgment “your will be done” just before He banishes you from His presence for eternity.

    To extend the passage where Paul dealt with your foolishness 1950 years ago,

    …19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Romans 1:19-21

    They aren’t “my rules.” That’s what your darkened mind can’t wrap itself around. Mostly because of the conceit in which you live won’t allow it.

  22. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:43 pm

    Simply put, I live in a different neighborhood. Despite your bluster and book waving, your zoning rules don’t apply.

  23. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:45 pm

    Your reading comprehension needs some very serious attention. Just stop the pseudo-intellectual affectation and just get down to the fact that you don’t want to hear anything that challenges the conceit and darkness in which you live.

  24. Quartermaster
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:47 pm

    Ha! We live in the same neighborhood, like it or not. You will acknowledge Christ as Lord one day. You can accept amnesty now, or you can kneel as a conquered enemy later. The message of scripture can boiled down to the simple phrase, “turn, or burn.”

  25. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 7:55 pm

    If more folks did the “live and let live” bit, this would be a happier world.

  26. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 8:03 pm

    I’m really trying not to be snarky with you, but you certainly don’t make it easy.

    I’ll be nice.

    I’m not here to refute or challenge Christianity. I’m pointing out that not everyone is a Christian or lives by Christian rules.

    Now you can live with that, or you can waste time arguing about it.

    Me, I’m just keeping vigil like I have for years. And maybe nailing the occasional page to the door.

  27. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 8:12 pm

    I suspect that the reason you tried to discredit the Jefferson quote was because I was the one who used it.

    It’s a good quote because a good man came up with it.

    You know, like all those quotes he put in that study guide of his?

  28. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 8:23 pm

    And there go the threats again.

    Next comes the bit where you deny responsibility for your own posts because you’re “only the messenger.”

    Do you have any idea how hard it is to take you seriously?

  29. NeoWayland
    February 24th, 2015 @ 8:27 pm

    Look, I’m not interested in your god or what you tell me He told you to tell me. That conversation is way too complex unless I get my gods involved, and They wouldn’t appreciate that.

    I’m more interested in what you have to say. Don’t give me Bible quotes, tell me what you think and feel.

  30. Julie Pascal
    February 24th, 2015 @ 8:43 pm

    You can’t *explain* the origin of the universe in approximately four pages of text. And that’s what people seem to latch onto as proof it’s *not* true… that God didn’t reveal how he did what he did in scientific detail. Or else they’ll take the extra explanation of various churches that add and explain and interpret those texts and attack *that*. There is no implication that God is lying when I say that God said he did it, He didn’t say how, and when we *make up* the parts He left out, WE are in error. Because the Bible is not about that. It’s about redemption.

  31. Evi L. Bloggerlady
    February 24th, 2015 @ 9:28 pm

    You and I can debate a topic like two Rabbis, without cutting off anyone’s head.

  32. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:01 am

    What is on that “occasional page” is foolishness. If you don’t like being called on it, then don’t post it.

  33. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:06 am

    I’ve made no attempt to discredit Jefferson’s statement, that’s your conceit, not mine. I feel no need to discredit it.

    Jefferson was a deist, but he also called himself a Unitarian in a letter to Adams. It is no surprise that Jefferson constructed his “study guide” as he did. He did not recognize the deity of Jesus Christ.

  34. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:10 am

    I don’t deny responsibility for my posts. That’s your conceit because you can’t wrap your mind around the fact that I am just the messenger.

    It does not surprise me that you don’t take me seriously. It is simply part and parcel of the foolish man you are. The Christian is called to warn of the choice that God places before everyone. You choose to ignore it, that’s your call. Your choice to ignore it, however, does not make God’s threat any less real, or the results of the rejection of the warning any less ghastly.

  35. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:12 am

    My posts say what I think and feel. That you are not interested in my God, is your misfortune. It won’t keep me from saying what I do.

  36. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:19 am

    The Bible tells us the origin of the universe, and you are correct that it does not offer a scientific explanation. The latter is not the function of scripture. However, it is clear Exodus 20, that God meant 6 literal days in Genesis 1.

    Modern science was birthed by Christianity. I think it was Kepler that used the phrase “thinking God’s thoughts after Him.” Science tries to explain the natural order without reference to God. That is not atheism as some suppose, it simply serves no function in science when you appeal to God in that context. We already know what God did, we just don’t know how He did it.

    The fact is, we will never know everything about God’s creation. Because of the fall we are limited to the 4 dimensions of our reality, and we have bumped up against those limits. As it turns out, all 4 of those dimensions are pixelated as time and distance have minimum sizes known as Planck length and Planck time. While both are exceedingly small, they are there. It also appears there may be a total of 10 dimensions as well.

    Physics is telling us things of spiritual import, if we will listen.

  37. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:21 am

    But, no Beer Summits. While I like the aroma of a freshly open can of coffee grounds, or a freshly opened pack of cigarettes, I don’t like beer anymore than I like cigarette smoke. 🙂

  38. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 10:14 am

    After what I’ve posted here, you actually think I’m doing this for approval?

  39. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 10:19 am

    Then why do you have to state that he wasn’t a Christian? Again and again and again.

    Jefferson’s point (and mine) is that unless your neighbor is hurting you, it shouldn’t matter what religion he is.

    You have a pattern you know. When you can’t refute the point, you try to discredit the source. When that doesn’t work, that’s when you bring out the hellfire threats.

    So tell me, does the Jefferson quote show wisdom?

  40. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 10:25 am

    I choose to ignore it because I found Someone else.

    These little dustups happen because you insist that your choice trumps mine and that I’d better mend my ways.

    Paraphrasing Mr. Jefferson, why should it matter?

    It’s almost as if you’re afraid I might be right, so you have to shut me up at any cost.

  41. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 10:27 am

    I see is you hiding behind Bible verses.

    That’s just the starting point, you know.

  42. CruisingTroll
    February 25th, 2015 @ 3:40 pm

    According to the left, it’s the only religion that’s wrong.

    While not exactly accurate, you’re pretty close. The religions that declare adherence to and faith in the LORD God Almighty, Jehovah, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is the only God who is wrong. Whether seen through the pre-Messiah view (Judaism) or the post-Messiah view (Christianity), it is wrong, and the only one that seems to be subject to attack. At least here in the West.

  43. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 6:22 pm

    Your motivation is irrelevant to me. What you have posted is nonsense and I will oppose such trash.

  44. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 6:24 pm

    Once more, since you seem to refuse to recognize it, I have done nothing to discredit the statement.

  45. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 6:25 pm

    You’re posting garbage. I won’t allow it to go unopposed.

    You’ve made your choice, yet you continue to oppose what others say. You’re living in a glass house.

  46. Quartermaster
    February 25th, 2015 @ 6:29 pm

    Ha! I’m hiding behind nothing. You’ve bought into a form of stupidity which is not supported by any evidence and you think I’m hiding.

    I’m quite open about my stance and why I have come to be where I am. That’s a very strange way to hide. Your philosophical nonsense has wounded your intellect so deeply you can’t wrap your head around how anyone could possibly choose what I have. I see the same type of stupidity in overeducated morons like Krauss and Dawkins and I’m simply not impressed by it.

  47. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:54 pm

    Just another difference of opinion.

  48. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 7:55 pm

    Then why does it matter if someone is Christian or not?

    See, that’s the same either/or reasoning you use all the time.

  49. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 8:00 pm

    Again, why should it matter?

    Have I injured you? Have I seized your bank account? Have I denounced your faith? Have I gone to your church and taken an axe to the altar? Have I burned your Bible?

    What wrong have I done that you think you must oppose at all costs?

  50. NeoWayland
    February 25th, 2015 @ 8:07 pm

    When you trot out the Bible verses all the time to control someone else, that’s hiding.

    And I’d say you’re projecting.

    After all, you’re the one denouncing my choice.