The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Greetings From Spartanburg!
REPUBLICAN DEBATE ON CBS
UPDATE: ‘No Runs, No Hits, No Errors’

Posted on | November 12, 2011 | 62 Comments

SPARTANBURG, S.C.
UPDATE 9:27 p.m. ET: Just caught Carl Cameron on his way out of the filing center. “What’d ya think?” he asked.

“Seemed pretty standard, except for Ron Paul,” I said.

“Yeah — no runs, no hits, no errors,” Carl said. “And Perry’s still alive.”

That’s a neutral, objective fact — and quite important. After Perry’s big flub Wednesday, it looked bad for him. But he came back very strong tonight.

Also, I’d say that Herman Cain came in well-prepared. Foreign policy is his weakest suit, so for him to escape without a major gaffe is a victory for Cain.

The debate is over and I’m heading to the “spin room.”

UPDATE 9:19 p.m. ET: Gingrich is saying something very smart-sounding, but I’m looking over at the post-debate “spin room,” where the campaign proxies are starting to assemble, so I’m heading that way for a minute just to scope out the scene. Will be back in a few.

UPDATE 9:16 p.m. ET: Jim DeMint asks a question, which goes first to Romney, then Huntsman. Eventually, they’ll get around to the non-Mormon candidates.

UPDATE 9:14 p.m. ET: Michele Bachmann isn’t wearing a gay tie, and doesn’t agree with Ron Paul.

UPDATE 9:12 p.m. ET: Rick Perry goes upside Ron Paul’s head, calls Paul’s ideas a “travesty.”

(Friends on Twitter point out that Ron Paul’s tie is as gay as Jon Huntsman’s.)

UPDATE 9:10 p.m. ET: Ron Paul hates lawless warmongers like Barack Obama.

UPDATE 9:09 p.m. ET: Herman Cain would reverse everything the Obama administration has done, as would Rick Santorum.

UPDATE 9:08 p.m. ET: Lindsay Graham wishes he was wearing Jon Huntsman’s tie.

UPDATE 9:07 p.m. ET: Mitt Romney gives the Mitt Romney answer.

UPDATE 9:06 p.m. ET: Ron Paul gives the Ron Paul answer.

Linked by The Lonely Conservative.

UPDATE 9:05 p.m. ET: Gingrich talks Syria. Name-checks Assad. He wants “mostly convert” response.

UPDATE 9:03 p.m. ET: Herman Cain talks “Arab spring.” The revolutions “have gotten totally out of hand.” Expresses concern about Muslim Brotherhood taking over Egypt. Obama has been on the wrong side of everything.

UPDATE 9:02 p.m. ET: Congresswoman Bachmann — that’s “Michele” to you, Rick Santorum — talks defense budgets. Turns it into repealing ObamaCare.

UPDATE 8:58 p.m. ET: Perry wants foreign aid to start at zero. Now the East Coast loses live TV coverage on CBS. And everybody in the Eastern Time zone is switching to TheOtherMcCain.com, for crucial coverage of Jon Huntsman’s gay tie.

UPDATE 8:52 p.m. ET: Huntsman’s gay tie — is that purple or fuschia? — is all about free trade. He likes young Chinese bloggers. IYKWIMAITYD.

COMMERCIAL BREAK!

UPDATE 8:50 p.m. ET: Mitt Romney hates him some Chinese! He’s anti-eggroll.

UPDATE 8:49 p.m. ET: China! Rick Perry talks China — the Communist Chinese government! He wants to win the Cyber War against those commies!

UPDATE 8:47 p.m. ET: Newt Gingrich gets huge cheers for explaining that enemy combatants don’t have no dadgum rights.

UPDATE 8:46 p.m. ET: Mitt Romney bashes Obama. Scott Pelley hates booing.

UPDATE 8:44 p.m. ET: Jon Huntsman has a gay tie. He’s anti-waterboarding.

UPDATE 8:42 p.m. ET: Michele Bachmann also supports waterboarding. And looks lovely saying so, don’t you agree?

Did I mention my wife reads this blog? Did I mention I love my wife? Because that’s kinda important.

UPDATE 8:41 p.m. ET: Herman Cain supports waterboarding as an “enhanced interrogation technique.”

UPDATE 8:40 p.m. ET: Rick Perry starts with a joke about his memory. He talks about being commander-of-chief of the Texas National Guard. He feels “very comfortable from Day One.”

Day Two, also. Day Three … uh, wait. Day Three … ?

UPDATE 8:38 p.m. ET: Rick Santorum will surround himself with people who will execute his policies. “Laser beam focus.”

UPDATE 8:36 p.m. ET: Herman Cain will listen to his generals.

UPDATE 8:30 p.m. ET: Rick Santorum just called Bachmann “Michele.” The media won’t notice, but he’s gonna get the evil eye from his wife. Santorum meanwhile talks some serious stuff about Pakistan. He just used the word “nexus.”

COMMERCIAL BREAK!

UPDATE 8:28 p.m. ET: Gingrich loves him some adverbs! He’s also “insistent” about protecting Copts in Egypt.

UPDATE 8:26 p.m. ET: Major Garrett reminds us that Michele Bachmann serves on the House Intelligence Committee. And is indisputably the most attractive member of the committee.

Wait — it’s sexist to notice that, isn’t it?

Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!

UPDATE 8:23 p.m. ET: Rick Perry hates him some foreign aid. He don’t trust him no Pakistanianese, either.

UPDATE 8:22 p.m. ET: Cain talks Pakistan with great fluency. Just wait until they ask him about Vanuatu.

UPDATE 8:20 p.m. ET: Mitt’s blue tie is very hetero.

UPDATE 8:19 p.m. ET: Jon Huntsman looks unserious in a gay purple tie. Because I’m homophobic, too.

UPDATE 8:18 p.m. ET: Michele Bachmann sounds serious talking about Afghanistan, and also looks serious, wearing black with her hair up. Yes, I know: It’s sexist to comment on her wardrobe. But she’s standing on stage with a bunch of guys in dark suits.

UPDATE 8:15 p.m. ET: Santorum reminds us of his foreign-policy credentials And runs over time talking about Iran.

UPDATE 8:13 p.m. ET: Rick Perry gets through his first answer without saying anything stupid. But he doesn’t answer the question, so he gets a follow-up. He does good.

UPDATE 8:11 p.m. ET: Ron Paul gets applause from Ron Paul fans.

UPDATE 8:10 p.m. ET: Gingrich opens with some great sarcasm about Obama’s dumb policies. “I agree entirely with Governor Romney.”

UPDATE 8:09 p.m. ET: Mitt Romney wants more time!

UPDATE 8:06 p.m. ET: First question to Herman Cain, about Iran’s nuclear weapons. He sounds pretty well-prepared. He gets a follow-up and handles it pretty well, too.

UPDATE 8:05 p.m. ET: Scott Pelley opens with a lecture and lays down the ground rules, hands it over to Major Garrett, who introduces the candidates.

UPDATE 8 p.m. ET: We’re LIVE nationwide on CBS.

EXPECT FURTHER UPDATES . . .

* * * PREVIOUSLY 6:56 p.m. ET * * *

We’re here at the Republican presidential debate at Wofford College (8 p.m. ET, CBS). Ali Akbar and Karen Martin have got a group of us bloggers into the event. I’m being assisted in this endeavor by my12-year-old son Jefferson:

Carl Cameron of Fox News and Jefferson McCain. Let’s face it, how many eighth-graders get official media credentials and hang out with network anchors at a presidential debate?

Ali Akbar and the ladybloggers of Politicalistas.com.

UPDATE: A couple more quick photos:

The stage it set, the lights are lit, the candidates are getting ready backstage and we await the moment when the moderators for CBS ask the crucial question: “Who’s buying Stacy’s beers at the after-party?”

You might not think that the warning sign at the right would be necessary, but this is South Carolina, after all. They take their Second Amendment rights very seriously down here.

The world’s loneliest Romney girl was asking people to take stickers. Not a lot of MittMania here in Spartanburg.

This family of Cainiacs was doing a standout by the entrance to Wofford College, surrounded by about 50 screaming Ron Paul fanatics. I’ve got video of the Paulistas and will upload shortly.

Category: Debates, Election 2012, Fear and Loathing in Spartanburg, South Carolina

Comments

62 Responses to “Greetings From Spartanburg!
REPUBLICAN DEBATE ON CBS
UPDATE: ‘No Runs, No Hits, No Errors’”

  1. richard mcenroe
    November 12th, 2011 @ 6:59 pm

    WOWSERS!  Ali better be careful or some wimmen in Chicago may decide they remember him!

  2. smitty
    November 12th, 2011 @ 7:06 pm

    ‘@Ali, Ali in-come, free free free!’

  3. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 7:10 pm

    “Let’s face it, how many eighth-graders get official media credentials
    and hang out with network anchors at a presidential debate?”

    What did the poor young man do to deserve such abuse? Wouldn’t it be more reasonable to just expose him to an iron maiden? Or the rack? Or even the comfy chair? My god, man! Show some decency!

  4. Mike
    November 12th, 2011 @ 7:33 pm

    You’re damn straight we believe in and exercise our Second Amendment rights here in the fine state of South Carolina. Glad y’all made it safe and sound.

     S&W 9mm…never leave home without it.

  5. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 7:44 pm

    As Heinlein said, “An armed society is a polite society.”

  6. Mike
    November 12th, 2011 @ 7:54 pm

    Just last week, the Sheriff told the citizens of Spartanburg county to please get themselves a CCW and arm themselves after a woman was assaulted in a downtown park in broad daylight.

  7. What Fun – A Recession Party! | The Lonely Conservative
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:02 pm

    […] party. I even missed the beginning of tonight’s GOP primary debate (Maggie and The Other McCain are live blogging it, so I’ll catch up with them later) because I left this party $400 richer […]

  8. richard mcenroe
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:06 pm

    Eventually.  But first it is very very noisy.

  9. lonely conservative
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:32 pm

    I returned from my recession party, tuned into CBS News to catch the end of the debate, and a few minutes later they switched over to CSI. 

  10. lonely conservative
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:34 pm

    On second thought, I’m glad I missed all the gay ties. And it’s NCIS, not CSI. 

  11. Mike
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:36 pm

    You didn’t miss much…Newt was great as usual, Ron Paul was Ron Paul, Perry did pretty good, Cain held his own and Governor Asterisk, Santorum and Bachmann were pretty much ignored as usual.

  12. smitty
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:37 pm

    How can Huntsman’s tie possibly be gay? I’m not interested in Mormonism or homosexuality, but the double negative nearly…wait. Nope. It doesn’t trigger interest.

  13. Live Blogging CBS/National Journal GOP Debate in South Carolina | Maggie's Notebook
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:47 pm

    […] The Other McCain was on the scene and live blogging there. He has some great photos and analysis. Re… […]

  14. Garym
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:48 pm

    How would you know that tie is gay? Did it come out of the closet?

  15. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 9:59 pm

    Wow. The debate over waterboarding should be over whether those who order, authorize, or participate in it should be executed, sentenced to life in prison, or just lose their American citizenship and be deported to North Korea where they belong.

  16. smitty
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:00 pm

    Do you differentiate between civil law and the law of armed conflict?

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  18. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:07 pm

    Smitty,

    There is no “law of armed conflict.” There’s a law of war, but aside from the fact that Congress has neglected to put the US at a legal state of war, that law of war clearly, unambiguously and without exception prohibits waterboarding, as US judges took notice of when they sentenced Japanese military officers to death for ordering it in the Tokyo Trials.

    The very idea that somewhere, some savage wearing the same uniform I once wore may be ordering, authorizing or participating in waterboarding induces in me a severe urge to vomit. If people who do that rate the uniform, the uniform has indisputably become the mark of the reprobate and the pariah.

  19. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:14 pm

    Is sodium pentothal really that ineffective?

  20. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:19 pm

    On my score sheet Santorum’s spiel about Pakistan must be an ally because we really, really need them to be, goes in the error column

  21. smitty
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:22 pm

    LOAC is a legitimate term.
    Concur with the lack of a formal Declaration of War.
    And I’ve had a course through the Naval War College on the Law of War/LOAC, and I can tell you that “unambiguously and without exception prohibits waterboarding” is an over-reach. Have you read Rumsfeld’s book? The notion that random folks in uniform are waterboarding people is quite over the top.
    Also, you didn’t answer my question.

  22. smitty
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:30 pm

    No, officially, we will always count Pakistan an ally, for all they substantially are not.
    The question is both a total bear and a really strong argument in favor of minimizing our overseas commitments, over time. Suck though the foreign presence does, we cannot leave vacuums about, even if they are really nice Dyson units.

  23. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:47 pm

    It’s one thing to assert that we must pretend that Pakistan is an ally to suit a purpose. Santorum asserted that we had to make Pakistan into an ally because we need for it to be one. Our interests and Pakistan’s diverge far more often than they meet, in addition there are at least two governments in charge of the country makes it impossible for “Pakistan” to be an ally.

  24. Anonymous
    November 12th, 2011 @ 10:47 pm

    Smitty,

    I haven’t been to the Naval War College, but I’ve also had courses on the Law of War, ranging from the basic recruit training classes to indoc when heading in for Desert Storm.

    No, I haven’t read Rumsfeld’s book.

    Nor have I asserted that “random folks in uniform” are waterboarding people. However, I can make an educated assessment that unless waterboarding is restricted entirely to CIA, which I’ve heard is not the case, that some of it is handled through JSOC, for which I was once an operator and which draws its operators from all branches of the armed forces.

    As to differentiating between civil law and law of war, I am aware that differences exist — and that in those differentiations, the latter is more restrictive than the former with respect to conduct.

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  26. ThePaganTemple
    November 12th, 2011 @ 11:11 pm

    I agree with you. We should nuke every country that attacks us off the face of the earth, that way there would be no reason for that nasty old waterboarding.

  27. ThePaganTemple
    November 12th, 2011 @ 11:11 pm

    Not if you know what the hell you’re doing.

  28. smitty
    November 12th, 2011 @ 11:20 pm

    I submit that, in terms of the history, Rumsfeld’s book is informative. Unless you think the man a total liar.
    If you want to make the Slippery Slope argument, that a little waterboarding here, and we’ll be running the Hanoi Hilton within a decade, that’s about the best argument against it, in my opinion.

  29. Michele Bachmann Dominates CBS News/National Journal Debate - ScrollPost.com
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  30. AngelaTC
    November 12th, 2011 @ 11:25 pm

    Dude, the constitution clearly defines treason, says it has to be decided in open court, and that Congress gets to decide the penalty.  

    The constitution says nothing about the law of armed conflict or civil law. 

    You don’t get to embrace it only when you agree with Obama.

  31. AngelaTC
    November 12th, 2011 @ 11:34 pm

    We’re long past waiting for actually being attacked to nuke people.  We’re now in the era of contemplating nuclear first strikes on people who have a leader that may have (depending on translation) merely insulted an ally.

  32. AngelaTC
    November 12th, 2011 @ 11:36 pm

    So everywhere we aren’t is a vacuum? 

  33. Republicanmother
    November 13th, 2011 @ 12:34 am

    In 1981, Israel led an airstrike on an Iraqi nuclear facility. Israel  was condemned for this preemptive strike by the United Nations, Jeanne Kirkpatrick,  Margaret Thatcher.

    In fact, the entire US Congress voted to condemn the act, except for a few dissenters, namely Ron Paul, who argued that Israel had a right to defend herself.

    Iran’s mullahs can’t go jet ski in the Persian without imported oil. War always comes down to logistics, if you’re actually interested in winning them, that is. Given America’s track record, I’d say that’s a no. The money’s in the medicine, not in the cure.

  34. Republicanmother
    November 13th, 2011 @ 12:37 am

    Read The Grand Chessboard by Zbignew Brzenzski, it has the answers we seek. Pakistan is what he calls a geopolitical pivot, as are Afghanistan and Iran, the plum that they haven’t yet picked. To gain control of the chessboard, you have to have control of the pivots. What is the chessboard? Eurasia, if one has control of it, one has control of the world.

    Does ZB have a big white fluffy cat? That would make the picture complete.

  35. Anonymous
    November 13th, 2011 @ 1:28 am

    Smitty,

    Even if I thought the man a total liar, I’d read his book — I just haven’t got around to it yet. I’m always well behind on my reading list.

    No slippery slope arguments from me. If you’re doing a little waterboarding, you don’t have a decade before you’re running the Hanoi Hilton, you already are running the Hanoi Hilton. It’s a principle thing, not a degree thing.

  36. Anonymous
    November 13th, 2011 @ 2:19 am

    I have a life (it’s a Saturday), so I only caught a few minutes here an there of the debate.

    It seemed to be a total bore as most of the candidates are on the same page which other….

    There seems to be a bit of a dust up about Perry and Israel….but that is just nit picking…

    Nothing has changed…

    Romney…still treading water….

    Cain… shoring up the bleeding after weeks of a massive assault that have destroyed every single politician who has come under such a liberal/GOP establishment storm not named Bill Clinton…

    Gingrich…still continues a hopeless mini-surge…he will be done…as soon as people remember that he isn’t a conservative and as recently as a few weeks ago was talking about government centered healthcare…

    Perry….is done

    Santorum/Bachmann…..hoping against hope

    Paul…see Perry (except he is outside the margin of error as far as voting support goes)

    Huntsman…see Perry

  37. Adjoran
    November 13th, 2011 @ 2:30 am

    Congress has the power to declare war; that it must be in some 18th Century form is not specified.  Courts have never held this, yet repeatedly applied wartime understandings to every military conflict where the subject was raised.

  38. Adjoran
    November 13th, 2011 @ 2:40 am

    Incidentally, there is no “a” in “Lindsey.”

    No major gaffes, although Santorum’s desperation is beginning to show.  No “winner” on points, but Perry earns high marks for exceeding expectations and showing good humor about his huge malfunction last week.  Not bad on substance.

    Newt wasn’t bad, but some of his debate schtick is becoming formulaic.  Romney was Romney – solid, no gaffes, just feisty enough to be noticed.  Cain’s weakest performance in about two months, but nothing embarrassing and it is his weak area of expertise. 

    How long will we pretend these things are serious with 60-second answers?  It’s a joke.  Everybody knows that Huntsman, Santorum, Bachmann, and Paul are not going to win the nomination.  They have had plenty of opportunities to share the stage and promote their message.  It’s time to winnow the field down to the top four.  Show us double digit support, or don’t show up.

  39. Adjoran
    November 13th, 2011 @ 2:52 am

    Again, the panel and moderator illustrated why media should have no role in our debates.  Pelley was a smarmy jerk, even though he had no idea what he was talking about.

    The question of the “rule of law” dealing with terrorists on foreign soil shows once again why I describe most Libertarians as closet totalitarians.  Here is another case where they proclaim something “illegal” and “unconstitutional” which is clearly not.  The Constitution does not grant any jerk with an opinion the power to settle disputes over its meaning.  And every case in court has ended with the opposite result from the Libertarians’ assertions..

    Yet some believe their own opinion should supersede those determinations.  How is that different from the way Stalin and Hitler operated? 

  40. Joe
    November 13th, 2011 @ 2:53 am

    I went to a party and missed the debate, but I made it home to see SNL redo the Rick Perry moment at last week’s debate. 

    I have your son would have preferred Vegas…but you are a good dad so you brought him to this debate instead. 

  41. Anonymous
    November 13th, 2011 @ 8:56 am

    What nappy fails to comprehend is that the people we are fighting are already in violation of the Geneva Conventions: they have none of the requirements of soldiers the Conventions specify, they most certainly aren’t peaceful civilians, and they commit such war crimes as perfidy on a daily basis.

    They most certainly aren’t entitled to any of the rights of US citizens, no matter what the Supreme Court says, any more than Dred Scott could make slavery moral.

    What they are entitled to is a bullet in the head, or a rope, just as pirates are.

  42. Anonymous
    November 13th, 2011 @ 9:48 am

    Adjoran,

    It may not be specified that declarations of war must take some 18th century form, but it’s still presumptive that a bill which specifically states that it is  NOT a declaration of war — as both the immediate post-9/11 and the Iraq “authorizations of force” do  in their war powers reservation sections — is not a declaration of war.

  43. ThePaganTemple
    November 13th, 2011 @ 10:17 am

    Can we kindly move past arguments that assert something absolutely must be factual just because Ronald Reagan said so, please? K thanx bye.

  44. ThePaganTemple
    November 13th, 2011 @ 10:21 am

    Thanks for the clarification. Now the next time somebody threatens to wipe me off the face of the earth I’ll know its just an “insult”

  45. ThePaganTemple
    November 13th, 2011 @ 10:27 am

    I have a problem with it myself, but I see what’s he’s saying. It’s the old “keep your friends close, enemies closer” deal. There’s also something to be said for having a presence capable of keeping track of what’s going on, and ostensibly being able to disrupt, dismantle, destroy effectively should the reason or need arise. Personally, I’d rather just get out and tell the Indians to do whatever the hell they want to do to them. But it would be helpful if we had the means to prevent a nuclear strike.

  46. Tennwriter
    November 13th, 2011 @ 10:29 am

    I see Libertarians as adolescents.  They pound the pulpit for cheap certainties.

    Thankfully, there are really not that many of them.

  47. Mike
    November 13th, 2011 @ 11:25 am

    As I tweeted last night…did anyone else notice that Huntsman  had matching lipstick and tie? Or was it just a trick of the lighting. I’m not insinuating anything, just asking.

  48. You have recovered your courage. Now prove your wisdom. « Temple of Mut
    November 13th, 2011 @ 11:37 am

    […] Readers: Looking around at the reviews for the South Carolina foreign policy debate (e.g, The Other McCain), I can help but admit to having reached a level of serenity and acceptance. I think I have […]

  49. AngelaTC
    November 13th, 2011 @ 12:16 pm

    Iran threatened to wipe you off the face of the earth?  

    Oh wait – are you talking about Israel? That wasn’t actually what he said, but don’t let the facts get in the way of a good war-drumming.

  50. AngelaTC
    November 13th, 2011 @ 12:18 pm

    Not when we signed the Geneva convention based on that assumption, no.

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