Well now there is something to be said for that, and you actually nailed it yourself with the use of the word “audition”. So a woman who wants to get married should “audition” for the job? So what if the “casting director” grants her the “role”, and it turns out to have been just that? A role? Does a roll in the hay turn into some poor chump getting rolled? I’m afraid it does far too often, and in the current judicial climate where the woman is far too often unfairly favored, this can be cause for concern. Maybe not so much in the beginning, but later, when the stage lights are down and the “actress” reveals her true self.

Good point about “grownups” playing at being grownup.  Pretending is not the real thing; pretending makes you a fraud — and that’s damaging for everyone concerned.

We have become so conditioned to value “nice” above anything else, that it is very hard for young people in every area of their lives.  And “nice” is often very, very shallow and the enemy of the good/true.

That’s how we wind up auditioning to respective mates (and men do it too — they do what they believe is expected of them, same as women, what they believe is wanted; who can blame them considering how things are?).  This makes it doubly hard for anyone who would rather know and tell the truth (which is the basis of a lasting relationship — golden lies notwithstanding, in the long run you either accept somebody warts and all and are accepted in return, or you are not — best to start out with the person you can have mutual acceptance with, usually lasts).  It takes a lot of courage; courage isn’t valued anymore.

And with that, and as a personal aside: let’s all wish my new son-in-law good luck.  He is going for SF selection, and as this is very important to him I hope he makes it.  He has some salt to him, that one, as well as basic decency — so far, in the little time to get to know him, I’m quite happy with my daughter’s choice;they appear to have picked appropriate people for each other.
So a toast to my son-in-law; wish there were more young men like him. 

In fairness to our old-fashioned host, I don’t think he means to denigrate any individual or couples, his concern is with the far reaching implications for society and marriage in that it has become (actually has been for quite some time) such a common aspect of our culture. Of course I could be wrong and Smitty could just be an old fuddy-duddy wanting to rage at all the young whippersnappers.

That Evan  Sayet video should be mandatory viewing for all conservatives.

Slightly OT, but… is it just me, or has the Wombat been taking a lot of “me time” with our Rule 5 entries?  Maybe we’re doing too good a job?  Is an intervention called for?

Well, that’s the problem — people are very ignorant anymore about what marriage is supposed to entail, or why it’s probably better than co-habitation. No offense Finrod, there is always the special individual case, but most live togethers are that instead of married because even after many years and many pronouncements of love…one or both wanted to leave the door out cracked at least a teeny tiny bit open, which means somebody or both were not truly committed to the partnership or the other person.
That’s not a very grownup or even decent way to treat another person, nor really oneself.  And that is why, imhao, it usually ends badly for all concerned.
Now, is that better than a marriage that quickly ends in divorce?  Hard to say — I think both are equally damaging for people and society.  There’s probably no easy answer but to raise our children with the skills to avoid such things as best they can.

But anyone who tries to shack up with, not marry any of my kids will be finding themselves in an interesting situation…I don’t care if my kid in question thinks they are the one true love (the kid can always find another one).

My husband’s cousin auditioned a woman for about five years. He then decided she wasn’t the one, kicked her out and got married to somebody else.

Have it your way; I hope that your example isn’t used by anyone else to justify their own choices, if they do awry.

 It’s the governments fault. They do everything they can to make it hard on married couples, especially married couples with children, which is by and large why so many people use contraception and even get abortions, as well as why so many couples elect to just shack up instead of engaging in traditional marriages. It’s hard to blame them.

Oh, thank ya thank ya thank ya.

Personally, I never recommend my lifestyle to anyone.  I’m a mutant, a statistical outlier; what works for me isn’t necessarily likely to work for anyone else.  Or as HST put it: “I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they’ve always worked for me.”

However, I was overly confrontational in my original post, and you deserve an apology for that.

There are strict modification rules from NASCAR to soap box derby!  

 There’s something to that, but overall I don’t buy it.  A marriage is much more than a financial arrangement and I’m sure most people don’t crunch numbers in spreadsheets before having kids.  (We sure didn’t.  It was more a case of “You wanna? OK.”  If we’d done the math we’d never have had kids.) That said, the math can’t be ignored. 

Ultimately people do what they want to do and find ways to rationalize it if necessary.  I suspect that is a much more important contribution to the cases you mention, abortion and shacking up, than financial concerns.