The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Question: What’s the Difference Between HPV and Whooping Cough?

Posted on | August 26, 2011 | 49 Comments

From a public-health perspective, someone ill with whooping cough could spread this potentially deadly disease to anyone who encounters them, however casually — in the hallways of a public school, for example. So requiring young children to be vaccinated for whooping cough just makes common sense.

Human papilloma virus? Not so much.

Maybe Cody at LFAYA will reconsider whether he really wants to throw down with Michelle Malkin over Rick Perry’s HPV vaccine mandate.

Because I’m thinking . . . not so much.


49 Responses to “Question: What’s the Difference Between HPV and Whooping Cough?”

  1. Blackwater
    August 26th, 2011 @ 9:41 pm

    It’s not the vaccine, it’s the usurpation of the process and the crony capitalism.

  2. ThePaganTemple
    August 26th, 2011 @ 10:46 pm

    Not supporting Rick Perry over weakness on immigration and Islam, I can see that?

    HPV vaccine? Not so much.n I put that on the same level as “Rick Perry mooned the passengers of a vehicle during his college years” or, “Rick Perry shot a teacher the bird once in grade school.”

  3. Chuck Coffer
    August 26th, 2011 @ 11:21 pm

    I don’t get why the Human Pomegranate Virus is categorically different from Polio or Rubella or any of the other shit kids have to be immunized against in order to attend public skoo.

    Seems an odd thing to give half a shit about.

  4. dr kill
    August 26th, 2011 @ 11:22 pm

    I like you, Stacy, I really do. I like your blog style and attitude. But I’m calling you a  Neo-Puritan on this one. I believe the real problem with this vaccine is that it is designed to protect from a STD. And you Neo-Puritans believe that people should be punished for STD infection. Tell me I’m wrong.
    You know I have a daughter. She is now 29 and vaccinated for HPV several years ago. She is in nursing school at LSU, so she deals with this stuff regularly.  We had this discussion last evening. The point is this.
    Let’s just say you also have a daughter, a lovely girl who never had an impure or unchaste thought and was virginal on her wedding day. Let’s just say her groom was a lovely young man, who loved her very much and only one time, years before had unprotected sex. And now your baby girl is infected.
    Now when her late stage cervical cancer is discovered, does I Told You So really work for you?
    If a vaccine that is 70% effective at preventing a disease carried by an estimated  25% of the adult population is available, are you getting your kid vaccinated or not?
    I guess neither of us really cares about your daughters.

  5. Chuck Coffer
    August 26th, 2011 @ 11:27 pm

    And what of rape?

  6. Anonymous
    August 26th, 2011 @ 11:51 pm

    And what of rape?

    I’m against it.

    Next question.

  7. Chuck Coffer
    August 26th, 2011 @ 11:58 pm

    Oh. A funny.

  8. Anonymous
    August 26th, 2011 @ 11:58 pm


    All things considered, rather a silly accusation.

    The question is not whether the vaccine is a good thing or a bad thing. The question is whether Perry was right in his attempt to make Gardasil mandatory for every 6th-grade girl in Texas. The Texas legislature obviously disagreed, and now even Perry admits he was wrong. Yet some people now feel the need to defend Perry’s wrongful measure because . . .

    Well, it’s up to you to answer the question, not me.

  9. Anonymous
    August 27th, 2011 @ 12:02 am

    I have a wonderful daughter who is 13 years old.  Her doc has been bugging me to get her vaccinated.  I’m not an anti-vaccine nut, but I have to agree w/Stacy:  HPV is not communicable except through sexual contact, which is not equivalently dangerous as airborne viruses like measles, smallpox, mumps, rubella.  Since ALL drugs (not just vaccines) carry a risk, I don’t want my daughter to have any medications that aren’t absolutely necessary.  Until there is solid proof otherwise, I do not deem Gardisil absolutely necessary.

    Fortunately, there’s something called a PAP smear.  One screening a year can catch even the minuscule precursor of cervical cancer.  When my kid turns 18, she can choose for herself whether to have the vaccine.  But as a mom, I’ll be keeping up on the science, and if things change, then I’ll change my mind. 

  10. Anonymous
    August 27th, 2011 @ 12:14 am

    Tell that to Ace of Spades! He thinks it’s just fine to inject little girls with what at the time wasn’t tested enough and Perry wanted IT TO BE MANDATED until  they fought him and won!! CONSERVATIVES don’t think, gee, let’s mandate INJECTIONS from Merck, BIG PHARMA and then say “I was just ahead of the parade”!!!!  That’s what Perry said and now CA wants to do the same thing, what does that tell ya?  Last night Ace of Spades MOCKED me for my concerns and dismissed it as “freedom isn’t free” crap!  Well, that’s exactly what I’m fighting and HE doesn’t get it or he is on the side we’re fighting, I choose the LAST ONE for him and Ace and Eric of Redstate who likes telling big FAT LIES about TPartiers are on the wrong side of history and now we know who these people are!  Guess what Ace and Eric, we have changed the standards and we deserve BETTER than the old corrupt establishment games that are the same as the DEMOCRATS/OBAMA!  We have had enough and it’s OVER!  The change has already happened and they don’t realize it yet, WELL, BUCK UP BOYS!

  11. Mike
    August 27th, 2011 @ 12:44 am

    It’s also the big rush to put it on the market knowing there were potentially bad side effects and the attempts by Big Pharma to have it become a mandatory  vaccine.

    Ultimately, it’s up to parents to decide if they want their daughters vaccinated with this drug or not.

  12. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 1:03 am

    I’m not defending anything. I’m categorizing. If the Human Puffalump
    Virus thing is a big deal to you, I think you should have more on your
    mind. The potential downside to Perry’s decision is that  girls won’t
    contract a disease. That’s all. If that’s your beef, you’re serving up
    some pretty thin stew.

    We have a greasy communist in the White House. I understand what’s at stake. Do you?

  13. cathy
    August 27th, 2011 @ 1:07 am

    This seems like a very sensible approach — and a great response.

  14. Anonymous
    August 27th, 2011 @ 1:24 am

    Well, it’s not about Ace or Erick either. And if Perry gets the nomination, I’ll support him against Obama. Let’s face it, if the GOP nominated Martin Bormann, we’d all be on the Bormann bandwagon. And probably win, too.

    Perry is being sold as the solution to the problem of a weak 2012 GOP field and . . . Well, I have my doubts. Maybe my doubts are misplaced, but we’ll wait and see. But he’s not All That and a Stack of Pancakes, and I dislike the way we’re being told that we must — absolutely must — rally to the Perry standard.

    Pawlenty with a drawl. Giuliani in cowboy boots.

    That’s just the vibe I’m getting. Strong campaigns aren’t usually so defensive as the Perry people seem to be.

  15. thirteen28
    August 27th, 2011 @ 2:07 am

    Malkin lost me when she refused to accept the sincerity of Perry’s apology.  Perry’s apology wasn’t the typical mealy-mouthed non-apology apology you typically get from politicians, it was quite unequivocal and left no wiggle room.  He unequivocally said he was wrong and further said he made a mistake by not having a conversation with the people of Texas.  But Malkin’s unwillingness to accept even that indicates that what she is really seeking is just a cudgel with which to beat Perry over head.  It is she that doesn’t want to let it go, even after he admitted his wrong. 

    By all means vet the guy and expose his mistakes.  But at the same time, you have to be honest about when he acknowledges those mistakes.  Malkin isn’t willing to do the second part of that, and she sacrificed her own credibility on the issue. 

  16. Anonymous
    August 27th, 2011 @ 2:24 am


  17. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 2:31 am

    “Must rally” is a far cry from cannibalism over petty things. Hell, the guy supported Al Gore twenty-something years ago while Brakabama was hanging out with domestic terrorists. Knowing the difference is , well, knowing the difference. I see the republican field as a rock, paper scissors sort of dealio. Perry has what it takes. Then again, so does Romney.  I just don’t see how it benefits us to shit all over our own people when our opposition is straight out of the depths of Hell.

  18. Anonymous
    August 27th, 2011 @ 2:42 am

    Malkin lost me when she refused to accept the sincerity of Perry’s apology.

    Did anyone accept Pawlenty’s apology for his “green” phase? No.

    Are conservatives forgiving Romney for RomneyCare? No.

    Yet, as I said, the expectation seems to be that we must all agree that Perry is All That and a Stack of Pancakes, or else we’re being “divisive.” The defensiveness of the Perry-ites bothers me.

  19. Adjoran
    August 27th, 2011 @ 2:49 am

    The real problem with Perry’s initial decision on the HPV vaccination program is that this is an area which needs national leadership.  States should not be reaching individual decisions on immunizations before there is sufficient science on it. 

    Malkin has for years been known to have a bug up her butt over any mandatory immunizations.  Perry just picked the wrong issue to mess up.  Some people have that “wrong issue” that sets them off.  It’s like the old vaudeville routine, “Niagra.”

    You can tell something weird is happening when normally conservative people start ranting against companies being “profit driven” . . . um, yeah, that’s the idea. 

  20. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 2:53 am

    So, we can’t vet our own candidates now? I don’t know Perry from Jack Schidt. I’m not going to just suck up and vote for him, thats the kind of schidt that gave us the Kenyon.
    Vetting our candidates properly will get us the best candidate. Romney is already out in my book. Perry’s crony capitalism wasn’t a deal breaker, but it definitely is a gig against him.

  21. thirteen28
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:03 am

    Romney has yet to admit Romneycare was a mistake, and in fact he doubled down on it.  So why should he be forgiven for that?  It was a terrible policy and he defends it.

    As with Yawnplenty and his former Green stance, nobody really cared in the first place.  There’s a reason he’s not in the race anymore, and his Green stance has almost nothing to do with that fact.

    The expectation that Perry is all that and a Stack of Pancakes is a red herring.  As I said above, vet the guy all you want and expose his mistakes.  But be fair about it, including acknowledging when the guy unequivocally acknowledges his own mistake.  Malkin didn’t.

    Besides, I’d rather have a guy that can admit a mistake like Perry vs. somebody who cannot, like Romney on Romneycare or Obama on … well, just about everything save for whacking Bin Laden.

  22. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:07 am

    The apology is acceptable, its the mindset that caused him to make that mistake in the first place. Was he doing a fav for a donor? Was it because he genuinely wants to erradicate an STD?
    As for Michelle Malkin, she has always been consistent with her criticisms of conservatives and republicans who jump on the big government bandwagon, regardless of how big or small the controversy is.

  23. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:07 am

    I do on both counts. Both have explained their respective cases well. All I’m saying is that there aren’t many good reasons to dump all over Perry if you’re really taking a complete picture of his record. He holds up pretty well compared to the rest of the field. That’s all.

    For what it’s worth, I think it’s going to be a neck and neck thing between Romney and Perry; and at the risk of sounding flippant, I don’t really care which one wins the nomination. It’s more important to me that neither be undermined by their own side out of stupid, suicidal spite.

  24. thirteen28
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:10 am

    Perry received $6000 in campaign contributions from Merck.  Hardly a huge sum, and an infinitesimally small drop in the bucket of campaign cash he had on hand.  If you want to make a case that it was that amount of campaign contribution that drove him to his decision, be my guest.

    Malkin is a good conservative, but she’s hardly infallible, and sometimes she goes overboard with her own arguments as well.  She’s no more immune to criticism than any other conservative.

  25. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:29 am

    Its not the “profit driven” angle that is wrong with this. Malkin built up and sold Hot Air for a profit. She has no problem with profit, it has to do with government overreach and crony capitalism telling us what to do with our and our kids bodies. This is an important vaccine, but it is a personal choice between families and thier daughters.

  26. Bob Belvedere
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:45 am

    What Cathy said.

    This is the key: this is not something that can be passed along in the vast, vast majority of cases unless the person purposly puts themself at risk.

    Diseases such as small pox and polio attack people at random and easily.

  27. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:45 am

    Slooowly I toined!

  28. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 3:53 am

    Then I’m back to asking how is that vaccine pernicious while vaccines against stuff like Diptheria and the like are not?

    It seems an illogical axe to grind. The story goes it’s a sexually transmitted thing, but if it’s a confirmed cause of cervical cancer (a big time killer), why the whoop? I suppose its seen as some sort of mandatory prophylactic policy, but I don’t see it that way. I think it’s a shitty policy, but I think that about a WHOLE LOT of stuff. Human Poppacorka Virus is way down on my list of priorities either way.

    Let us dispense with the pure bullshit. If they had a real vaccine for AIDS, would you oppose it being in the battery of required immunizations? If so, you’re a weirdo.

  29. ThePaganTemple
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:06 am

    RomneyCare, as bad as it is, is not even the worse thing about Romney. That would be his current, present avowed belief in Global Climate Change, which he has not changed or apologized for. As if that were not enough, there is some credible evidence that his company, Bain, stands to make mucho money off of investments in green energy technology.

    In the grand scheme of things, the Gardasil flap is a minor issue at best, and that’s even assuming Perry made a mistake, which is not an assumption I for one am willing to make. He wanted to get ahead of what could at some future date turn into a serious problem in the form of a sexually transmitted disease that any teenager can screw up with just one mistake and contract. And then pass on to somebody else, and round and round we go.

    If this is the best thing the anti-Perry forces can come up with then there must not be much bite to this bark about his weakness concerning Islam or illegal immigration. Two things which either one by itself should be enough to sink his candidacy in a GOP primary contest.

    But no, he’s being denigrated because he wants to protect stupid, naive, hormone infused teenagers from-gasp-an STD.

  30. ThePaganTemple
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:08 am

    Well put.

  31. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:20 am

    I’m not against any immunizations. The majority of childhood contracted diseases are from airborn and touch transfer variety. HPV is an STD and should stay a personal choice between parents and thier daughters.
    As for a vaccine for AIDS,  I would be the first to sign up. However, mandating the vaccine for everyone to receive would require some vigorous debate. And being a wierdo, i’ve been called worse.

  32. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:21 am

    Wasn’t that on Abbott and Costello?

  33. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:29 am

    It was an old Vaudeville bit that just about everybody did. The three stooges did it too. Niagara Falls and Susquehana Hat Company are bits both made famous by Abbott and Costello.

  34. Chuck Coffer
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:32 am

    You’re not against ANY immunizations? Then you, my friend, are an extreme extremist of the most extreme kind.


  35. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:34 am

    That last paragraph of yours proves my point about Perry.

  36. Anonymous
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:48 am

    I’ve heard that smallpox is making a comeback. I’m old enough to have been vaccinated, but my daughter isn’t.

  37. Garym
    August 27th, 2011 @ 4:57 am

    Is that like a triple negative that comes out as a positive or a negative?

  38. Zilla of the Resistance
    August 27th, 2011 @ 10:59 am

    I’m sorry that you’ve run afoul, of the Perryists, they are unpleasant and no different from Obamazombies IMHO. I’ve lost a bunch of people who I once considered friends because I won’t drink the PerryBerry koolaid and people have even said that my blog and my tip jar should be boycotted. Perryists are a nasty bunch. 

  39. Zilla of the Resistance
    August 27th, 2011 @ 11:01 am

    THANK YOU! There is something fundamentally wrong with anyone living in post 2008 America that thinks potential presidents should not be fully vetted and simply followed blindly because they give a good soundbite and are ‘popular’! 

  40. Zilla of the Resistance
    August 27th, 2011 @ 11:12 am

    Those Perryists are a nasty bunch! I am so glad that you are not drinking the PerryBerry koolaid, Stacy, I’d hate to lose you to them too! I have lost so many friends who, it’s like a switch got flipped inside them, went from being nice normal reasonable people to viciously attacking anyone who dare criticize Rick Perry or question things in his past that are questionable! Like you, if he wins the primaries and becomes the nominee, I will support him, even though I will be choking back much bile in doing so,  but there is a lot of stuff about him that I do not like, and at the top of the list is that Rick Perry says “islam is a religion of peace”, which should be an immediate disqualifier for anyone running for office after we were killed by the thousands one bright and sunny September morning ten years ago for ISLAM. Is it too much to ask that if we can’t get a president who will stand up with us and for us against deadly islamic supremacist conquest that he or she can at least not proselytize for it?

    And it was wrong to force a VD vaccine on little girls before it had even been tested and proven safe. VD isn’t measles, you don’t get it from being in the same room as someone unless you happen to also be having sex with them.

  41. ThePaganTemple
    August 27th, 2011 @ 1:12 pm

    Zilla, if you’re right about Perry and his stand on Islam, and throw in illegal immigration into the mix, isn’t those two things what Michelle Malkin should be focusing on? Isn’t that enough to disqualify him in the minds of most voters? This Gardasil thing is not only silly, its a distraction from those two major issues. If I didn’t know better I’d swear Malkin was concentrating on this because she knows its a minor thing to the vast majority of people and might cause them to not look at these other two issues. Besides, like I keep saying, the danger with any STD is that you’re dealing with kids here who aren’t known to exercise the greatest judgment in the world. Even the best of them can screw up every now and then. Hello, the name Bristol Palin ring a bell? As far as I’m concerned, Perry basically did the right thing, he might just have went a little overboard and got a little heavy-handed. But in the grand scheme of things, forcing kids to get a vaccine isn’t going to result in potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of murders of Americans or in vast sections of the country being transformed into Third World Hell Holes controlled in some cases by violent criminals while social services are drained and stressed to the max.

  42. Threedonia
    August 27th, 2011 @ 6:24 pm

    Please… this is a tempest in a teapot.  Perry was reelected in 2010.  If Texans weren’t exercised much about it then why should we be?  Even IF his initial act was wrong… he responded to the electorate.  Isn’t that what elected officials are supposed to do?  If he moves forward then Malkin hits him as a statist RINO.  If he backs away (which is what he did) well now he’s a liar and just waiting to get his mitts (no pun intended) on the levers of the federal government.

    Read Perry’s book on federalism.  I suggest Michelle Malkin read it.  Even if he believed what he did was right… his federalist views would prevent him from forcing it on 50 states at the federal level.

    Rick Perry has faults — welcome him to the human race people.  But THIS is a non-starter.  I voted for him twice — I’ll do it again.  I love Michelle Malkin a lot.  She is a hero and courageous culture warrior.  AND she is blowing this out of proportion.  Perry made a political mistake and miscalculation.  He overreached.  He was slapped down and backed off.  Would that more politicians were as responsive to the electorate (see your Nixonian post above).  If Texans forgave him in 2010 — the real test of this issue — then it should be a non-starter.

    The question is legitimate and should be asked.  He gave the answer he’s always given.  I take him at his word.  I know people who have worked for him.  Beating it as a dead horse is getting ridiculous.

    And crony capitalism… please merck donated a total of like $6,000 to his campaign in 2006 and 2010.  That is a drop in the bucket.  After being Lt. Governor and Governor for 12 years you try finding someone who doesn’t owe something to Rick Perry.  That may be an argument against long tenured politicians, but hardly a big deal when words like “crony” are bandied about.  He’s an honorable guy — there are other aspects of his record and personality that are better attack points (his I-35 Transportation corridor idea for one).  Romney’s health care plan in Massachusetts should be more troublesome because it went forward.  Romney says it was good for MA but not the nation — I take him at his word.  I take Perry at his word (both in a Reaganesque “trust but verify” way of course)

    After all that.  Obama must go down and he must go down hard.  Whomever gets the nomination — Romney, Perry, Bachmann… will get my time, my effort, my money, and my vote.

  43. Threedonia
    August 27th, 2011 @ 6:25 pm

    and to reiterate… I’m not saying Perry shouldn’t be vetted.  I’m saying the HPV thing is a non-issue and the science of the vaccine is hardly as negative as Malkin paints it.    Screw sycophantic following.  Oh!  And I love Michelle Malkin.  🙂

  44. Bob Belvedere
    August 27th, 2011 @ 7:04 pm

    It is, along with other diseases that we had conquered [please see my posting from last year: The Reason That Dare Not Speak It’s Name.

    The main reasons: illegal immigration and parents who refuse to have their children vaccinated.

  45. ThePaganTemple
    August 27th, 2011 @ 10:02 pm

    Just curious, what’s your take on the “Islamophile” charge against Perry? Also, his record on illegal immigrants. Those are really the only two things that would be disqualifiers to me, if the rap against him is true.

  46. Threedonia
    August 28th, 2011 @ 12:08 am

    The Islamophile charge is looney.  Pam Geller does some good work — but she sees Islamophiles where there are none sometimes.  Perry loves Israel more than most Jews and is a devout Christian, so while he might be friendly or cordial to Muslims (some of whom are of course citizens of his State and thus he works for them too) he is in no way in cahoots.  The “religion of peace” thing grates on me too — but it’s political puffery — like Tide saying it’s “new and improved”.  Even if he believed that to be generally true — it in no way precludes someone — like Bush — from effectively prosecuting the war on terror against the radical Islamists.

    Illegal immigration.

    It  is different in Texas than in other states.  We’ve always had a very porous border so there’s historically been more forgiveness towards illegal aliens.  That’s why Bush pissed so many people off… and it was one of his (and Perry’s) failings. 

    I’ll say this… I think Perry will enforce federal law and will leave States to do as they wish.  But he has to explain his views and how they might or might not fit with the office of President.

  47. Anonymous
    August 28th, 2011 @ 12:29 am

    I’ve been following the vaccine hype since Wakefield’s 1998 study started a wholesale panic. I was appalled that people went berserk over a study with such a tiny sample size (12!) and filled with caveats as long as my arm.

    That study was found to be bogus–and funded by a law firm looking to build class action lawsuits against vaccine makers. A great investigative series is here:

    The panic in the UK has been so awful that “herd immunity” has dropped below 70% in some places. And lo and behold, measles, mumps, and rubella have resurfaced in the UK. Several unvaccinated children have died from those diseases. Geez!

  48. ThePaganTemple
    August 28th, 2011 @ 3:31 am

    Thanks for answering. You made me feel maybe a tad bit better about him, but not enough I’m ready to become a staunch Perry supporter by any means. On the other hand, if he does get the nomination, he’s definitely got my vote. I guess. I’m tore, really. I’d rather see somebody like Bachmann, who makes no bones about where she stands, but on the other hand, I have to wonder about her electability versus Perry, or for that matter Romney. I guess time will tell the tale.

  49. Threedonia
    August 29th, 2011 @ 2:42 am

    Glad to hear it Pagan…. there are legit reasons to favor Romney or Bachmann as there are legit reasons to like or dislike everyone.

    I know RSM is a friend of Geller, but we know Perry in Texas and calling him an Islamophile is batshit insane.  I’m not saying she is.  She might be peaches and cream.  The man keeps getting reelected in Texas — statewide since 1998.  So either MM and PG think we’re all idiots or the man both runs a good campaign and is well liked.

    I know no one here knows me from Adam, but a very close friend of mine… devout believer in Christ, adoptive father, cancer survivor twice and the nicest guy in the world worked closely with Perry in the mid-aughts.  If that guy vouches for Perry (and he does) then I have zero qualms voting for him.

    I’ll vote for Romney too — with zero doubt if he’s our nominee…

    Malkin’s schtick is just making a mountain out of a very old molehill.  Geller’s is scurrilous and libelous — I’m sorry to say.  I like MM a lot.  PG… not so much (only from what I read — she may be an awesome person so I never make those kinds of final judgments).

    If Geller said something as stupid that Mormons like Romney are unpatriotic and side with our mortal enemies, then don’t think for a second Team Romney wouldn’t be blasting her either.