No Means No, and So Does Yes

Posted on | March 1, 2014 | 98 Comments

Canadian columnist @RobynUrback reports on the latest development from the country that gave us “Slut Walk”:

On Wednesday evening at McGill University in Montreal, a group of students and community activists assembled to discuss when “yes” doesn’t actually mean yes. The Forum on Consent, which was also open to the public, featured several panel participants who spoke to the question of what we understand as “consent.” The theme was similar to a campaign launched by a Nova Scotia coalition earlier this month — the More Than Yes campaign — which contended that “sexual consent is more than just a yes.” According to that campaign, and echoed by the forum participants at McGill on Wednesday, real consent “must be loud and clear. Sex without enthusiastic consent is not sex at all. It’s sexual assault or rape.” . . .
Rape culture was one of the concepts discussed by the Forum on Consent panel, which contended that deniers of the phenomenon simply aren’t looking beyond the obvious. It’s a fair point. But it’s also impossible to claim that there is some sort of systemic, expanding mechanism of sexual assault denial, especially when we have no real means to measure its occurrence. . . .
And so, the suggestion that “yes” might actually mean “no” — or at the very least, isn’t a complete yes — further complicates any attempt to really evaluate what’s going on.

What’s going on, ma’am, is that the perpetually aggrieved need something to be angry about, and if they can stop those pesky “facts” from cluttering up the arguments, it’s easier to pretend women are under siege by agents of the oppressive patriarchy.

If there aren’t enough actual rapes to justify all this feminist yammering about “rape culture,” the activists will simply re-define rape until they get enough rape to suit them. This blog post, for example, may be considered a form of rape, because every feminist reading it knows that I’m thinking about her vagina — without her consent!

UPDATE: Welcome, Instapundit readers!

Category: Feminism

Comments

98 Responses to “No Means No, and So Does Yes”

InklingBooks
March 2nd, 2014 @ 6:33 pm

Keep in mind that beneath their shrillness, feminists have a low view of their sex. “Yes,” may mean “No” because for them women are hopelessly emotional creatures who can’t make real decisions, certainly not ones that are legally binding. They’re like children.

Feminist is evolving toward the same POV that many of the more chauvinistic English males held in the Victorian era held. What next? Will they be calling for women go out in public only when accompanied by an elderly spinster as chaperon. That’s the logical conclusion of “Yes” means “No.”
DaveO
March 2nd, 2014 @ 6:40 pm

That would piss of the transgenders, because of the use of a phallic symbol to reassign gender without the usual attendance at the trans-debutante cotillion. Use of phallic symbol on phallus is rape.
Dr. Weevil
March 2nd, 2014 @ 7:00 pm

As someone (not I) said at the time, it’s like an R-rated version of ‘Mother, may I’. Maybe even X-rated, if what he’s asking for is sufficiently out of the mainstream.
NWBill
March 2nd, 2014 @ 7:13 pm

The MOST important quote from this article, IMHO:

“If there aren’t enough actual rapes to justify all this feminist yammering about “rape culture,” the activists will simply re-define rape until they get enough rape to suit them.”

THIS is what you’re paying for at college these days? People who are OBSESSED with being a victim (or creating them) and wasting everyone’s time with crap like this – when the TRUE victims are the REAL rapes that are slanted and judged not on their own facts of the crime, but on what the college-fabricated context is?

Parents and donors should contact their colleges IMMEDIATELY and tell them, “If I ever hear of you supporting something – ANYTHING – like this, I’m pulling my kid/money out of your school PRONTO!”

You get enough people standing up like that, threatening to hurt these ridiculous progressive bubbles of stupidity (otherwise known as colleges) where they feel pain the most – their budgets – then, this will start to go away.
Slayer of Memes
March 2nd, 2014 @ 7:33 pm

“yes may mean “no”….

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose
it to mean — neither more nor less.”
Mr_Miyagi
March 2nd, 2014 @ 7:41 pm

That’s why guys should never date gals from their own school. The way to avoid these kangaroo courts is to date someone from a DIFFERENT school. In that case, if there’s an accusation of date rape, it’s beyond either school’s authority and becomes a police matter, with all the higher standards of proof that entails.
Nate Whilk
March 2nd, 2014 @ 7:46 pm

THOUGHTCRIME! ROOM 101!
Nate Whilk
March 2nd, 2014 @ 7:48 pm

…and form lines in front of those tiny guillotines.

(credit to Rowan Atkinson.)
cmdr358
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:22 pm

ISWYDT
Lee Reynolds
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:23 pm

Thanks to this and other insanities, courtship among young men and women at our colleges and universities has been fatally poisoned by the perpetual risk of being falsely accused of rape.

Were I a young man entering university, I would avoid all unnecessary contact with the women there. I would not put myself in a position where someone could falsely accuse me of something. Other than the bare minimum of interaction necessary for class participation, I would refrain from interacting with my female classmates. I would not date.
rmnixondeceased
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:25 pm

Heh. When a male says “no” he really means “yes, tie me up and make me do bad things …”
rmnixondeceased
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:27 pm

And in exposing the conversation the male becomes a privacy raper … even if the female initiated the exposure of the conversation.
rmnixondeceased
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:36 pm

Mine (for feminists) usually is “My God, what in the hell produced THAT!”
rmnixondeceased
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:37 pm

Pithy but to the point.
joethefatman
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:40 pm

Heh! Nicer than what I wind up thinking most about them though.
Bruce Hayden
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:50 pm

Better make sure though that neither party is under 18, because if either is, you have kiddie porn, which could conceivably be the ticket to prison time.
disqus_sBKZDGKiG8
March 2nd, 2014 @ 8:57 pm

It is not just on campus. I am acutely aware that in my workplace a simple accusation of sexual impropriety can lead to severe consequences. I avoid being alone with a female co-worker. It just ain’t worth the risk.

BTW, the best advice so far is not to date girls from your own school. That would be good in a number of ways, not just the avoidance of a school’s kangaroo court. Who needs the female distraction 24/7 ? An all male school would be ideal I suppose, and don’t plan on getting married until you are 40, and after you have “known” a reasonable number of women, to better gauge the nature of the “fair” sex.

The most fair suggestion so far is for the girl to wear a sign that says “Yes may not mean yes.” If she didn’t have such a warning on her, than the man is within his rights to take yes for an answer.
DavidL
March 2nd, 2014 @ 9:11 pm

Don’t be so sure. They have their eye on that too.
Zohydro
March 2nd, 2014 @ 9:15 pm

When I young, single, and promiscuous, I relied on my dog…
Quartermaster
March 2nd, 2014 @ 9:58 pm

We can, however, take comfort in the fact that it’s not rape rape.
Quartermaster
March 2nd, 2014 @ 9:59 pm

There will, at least, be a large supply of elderly spinsters.
Quartermaster
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:03 pm

Did you get the memo about all PIV being rape?
Quartermaster
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:05 pm

Antioch College as I recall. Oberlin may be close to that level of insanity, however. Antioch is now closed.
Mike G.
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:07 pm

Will you denounce yourself, or should I?
Donald Sensing
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:19 pm

It continues:
>>
`The question is,’ said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.’

`The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master – – that’s all.’
<<
And that is the only question the Left is interested in.

http://senseofevents.blogspot.com/2012/01/lefts-only-question-who-is-to-rule-that.html
RS
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:29 pm

Yes. We’ll just have to chalk that up to “clash of philosophies.”
Zohydro
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:33 pm

The beatings will continue…
JeffS
March 2nd, 2014 @ 10:51 pm

I’d rather play strip poker.

With Playboy bunnies.
Joy W. McCann
March 3rd, 2014 @ 2:10 am

“This blog post, for example, may be considered a form of rape, because every feminist reading it knows that I’m thinking about her vagina — without her consent!”

Au contraire; I’m positive that you are not.
idiot
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:10 am

Cops in my town talk about the staggering number of ‘retroactive rapes’. Seems the local religious college will toss a girl out for sex, but if she decides it was rape afterwards, then all is ok. (at least for her)

Consequently, they recommend to all male friends to have video records with audio of all interactions, and try to get her enthusiastically on top.
idiot
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:10 am

Cops in my town talk about the staggering number of ‘retroactive rapes’. Seems the local religious college will toss a girl out for sex, but if she decides it was rape afterwards, then all is ok. (at least for her)

Consequently, they recommend to all male friends to have video records with audio of all interactions, and try to get her enthusiastically on top.
idiot
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:11 am

If she’s under 18, you probably have other problems too. But if you’re both kids, go for audio only. Screaming “Yes” can help a defense case.
idiot
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:11 am

If she’s under 18, you probably have other problems too. But if you’re both kids, go for audio only. Screaming “Yes” can help a defense case.
idiot
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:13 am

Play that audio in front of a prosecuting attorney and see if he doesn’t laugh your rape case out.
idiot
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:13 am

Play that audio in front of a prosecuting attorney and see if he doesn’t laugh your rape case out.
Alarms & Discursions
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:14 am

I’m a man, and now I think back and realize that I’ve had sex perhaps thousands of times without once giving an enthusiastic and explicit verbal consent. Imagine my horror, then, to wake up this morning and realize I’ve been raped by women my whole life.
Alarms & Discursions
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:14 am

I’m a man, and now I think back and realize that I’ve had sex perhaps thousands of times without once giving an enthusiastic and explicit verbal consent. Imagine my horror, then, to wake up this morning and realize I’ve been raped by women my whole life.
Dana
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:26 am

Actually, I think that you’ve missed the point. The problem isn’t the degree of consent — a notion which makes almost no sense at all — but that they are attacking the cultural idea that men are the primary initiators of sexual activity.

This is the next step, don’t you see? Women now have the culturally approved right to consent to sex, but men are still the primary initiators, which is wrong, wrong, wrong! The lovely young ladies at McGill can’t somehow force the other sweet young things to change this cultural norm, but if they can force through this change, under which a coy yes or a femininely murmured yes is insufficient social, or legal, consent, then the sweet young things, when they get horny, are going to have to start taking more of the initiative and ripping their man’s shirt off.
Dana
March 3rd, 2014 @ 7:26 am

Actually, I think that you’ve missed the point. The problem isn’t the degree of consent — a notion which makes almost no sense at all — but that they are attacking the cultural idea that men are the primary initiators of sexual activity.

This is the next step, don’t you see? Women now have the culturally approved right to consent to sex, but men are still the primary initiators, which is wrong, wrong, wrong! The lovely young ladies at McGill can’t somehow force the other sweet young things to change this cultural norm, but if they can force through this change, under which a coy yes or a femininely murmured yes is insufficient social, or legal, consent, then the sweet young things, when they get horny, are going to have to start taking more of the initiative and ripping their man’s shirt off.
NeoWayland
March 3rd, 2014 @ 8:13 am

But if they take the initiative, then they can’t revoke consent retroactively…
kgbudge
March 3rd, 2014 @ 10:16 am

The effect of this notion is turn pretty much every husband and boyfriend into a rapist.

I think that’s entirely deliberate.
pabarge
March 3rd, 2014 @ 12:02 pm

Did someone say “Robin Urback”? Hello?
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/580358310/twitter.jpg
pabarge
March 3rd, 2014 @ 12:03 pm

You are wrong. He is. And of yours as well.
Bozikek
March 3rd, 2014 @ 1:02 pm

Pretty sure having a functioning penis now counts as rape.
Joy W. McCann
March 4th, 2014 @ 6:27 pm

Well, that went over your head . . . carry on.
Alec Leamas
March 4th, 2014 @ 10:59 pm

Meow!
ss396
March 4th, 2014 @ 11:45 pm

On the bright side, perhaps this increasingly expansive definition of rape / sexual assault, and a genuine male fear of accusation, will drive sex back into the safer confines of marriage; that it will become too risky to sexually experiment outside of marriage.

Yeah, I know that sex within marriage is also a target for these folks. Monomaniacal pursuit like that, though, is way beyond OCD. These folks have some serious mental health issues.
gekkobear
March 5th, 2014 @ 11:25 am

‘Nor does an intoxicated “yes,” [indicate consent]’

Well damn, that causes some problems from the last woman I had sex with. I guess we should both be in jail for having raped each other, as we were both intoxicated at the time.

That’s going to be a really crowded jail cell.