The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

This Is a Disgrace

Posted on | April 23, 2014 | 49 Comments

Students at Washington & Lee University badmouthing Robert E. Lee?

The worthless disrespectful punks should be expelled. Period.



49 Responses to “This Is a Disgrace”

  1. M. Thompson
    April 23rd, 2014 @ 9:51 pm

    General Lee dedicated the last few years of his life to the University to encourage unity in our nation. That’s something to remember him for.

    “God ha’ mercy on such as we,
    Baa! Yah! Bah!”

  2. LLC
    April 23rd, 2014 @ 9:55 pm

    An appropriate response from the university would be, “Those staff members who participated in chattel slavery will apologize to those students who were enslaved.”

  3. Freddie Sykes
    April 23rd, 2014 @ 10:01 pm

    Why exactly did these racist dweebs decide to go to a university associated with Robert E Lee? It is probably because they are anti-evolution!

    Major General George E. Pickett:
    Sirs, perhaps there are those among you who believe you are descended from a ape. I suppose there may even be those among you who believe that I am descended from a ape. But I challenge the man to step forward who believes that General Robert E. Lee is descended from a ape.

  4. DaveO
    April 23rd, 2014 @ 11:33 pm

    The group is a cadre of professional activists, attending W&L specifically because both George Washington and Robert E. Lee were slaveholders, lead armies in rebellion, and were from a deeply purple state (well, the blue is in Fairfax County, Richmond and Norfolk – the rest of the state is redder than a steam lobster) and both men were in their political philosophies very anti-Statist. The left frequently has trained grievance-mongers get into conservative schools for the express purpose of inciting a SCOTUS case. Sandra Fluke attending the once-Catholic Georgetown and demanding some very anti-Catholic and un-Catholic demands is one example. Similar happened to my alma mater next door, VMI. The activists got what they wanted, and then discovered they couldn’t give it back once the full cost was known.

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  7. David, Infamous Sockpuppet
    April 24th, 2014 @ 2:36 am

    Of course, the interesting thing about Robert E. Lee is that he is the one person most responsible for the terrible defeat of the South. If he had not been such a competent general, the North would not have had to resort to the total warfare they employed to achieve victory; the entire thing could have been done at a much lesser cost of life and materiel.

  8. Paul H. Lemmen
    April 24th, 2014 @ 7:10 am

    THIS! This idea and policy should be expanded to “Any extant person who participated in chattel slavery will apologize to those who were enslaved and financially recompense them their wages if they are themselves extant.”

  9. KC
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:02 am

    General Lee was against slavery and called it a moral and political evil. Unfortunately leftists in academia are pretty much clueless when it comes to history and who they champion as their mentors.

  10. CPAguy
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:07 am

    I don’t buy into the sterilization & excuses made for the traitor General Lee.

    I feel that the Confederacy lost its war & that the organization, its members, & symbols should continue to be held in shame & disgust.

    That said, those kids should have had a better grasp of history before they enrolled. It is hilarious that they broadcast their ignorance. THEY SHOULD KNOW WHERE THEY GO TO SCHOOL

  11. rather be anon
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:41 am

    Lee’s disapproval of slavery is part of the case that he was an honorable man.

    That’s why it was so unfortunate for America that he fought on the wrong side in the war that ended slavery. I imagine Lee not only would have helped end the war faster, he may have also avoided the atrocities against the South that the other Northern generals committed.

  12. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:41 am

    What you posted says far more about you and historical and political ignorance than it does anyone else. Perhaps you are unaware that Davis, for example, was held at Fort Monroe under appalling conditions while the corrupt unionists tried to convince a lawyer, any lawyer, to prosecute him for being a traitor. They couldn’t find one as all of them told the corrupt GOP that he did nothing wrong. If they couldn’t prosecute Davis, just how far would they get with the “traitor” Lee?

  13. rather be anon
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:43 am

    This is just an argument that the North pulled a lot of stupid crap too. It’s true, but it doesn’t prove that the Confederacy was any good.

  14. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:43 am

    The fact that Lee fought for Virginia rather than the North marks him as an honorable man. The south had the right to leave. Lee didn’t like it, just as Davis didn’t, but they both recognized the right to leave. Lincoln did not have the end of slavery in mind as a war aim, just keeping the south in the raw deal his Northern Corporatist handlers wanted.

  15. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:44 am

    It is rather strange that a “moral” North invented total war.

  16. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:45 am

    The facts matter not to the left.

  17. rather be anon
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:46 am

    Right to leave, yes. Right to uphold slavery, never! And as for the motivation of the secessionists, they correctly guessed that Lincoln was lying when he said he didn’t want to end slavery.

    I think it’s important to remember how much the Union states got wrong, but you couldn’t look to the Confederacy to find any better answers.

  18. rather be anon
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:48 am

    Point taken. The conduct of the war was not only immoral, it undermined the good aims that some right-minded people were trying to achieve. And the negative effects lasted long after the war was over, much to the detriment of America.

    This, of course, doesn’t excuse the sins of the Confederacy.

  19. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:50 am

    Once more a post made from ignorance. Look up the Confederate Constitution sometime. The difference between the North and South is the South meant it.

    The public skool version of history is a farrago of lies and you would be better served if you did some research on your own. My opinions were changed by my research in northern libraries. The very writings of the northern scum that tore the south apart for no reason convicts them.

    Lincoln prosecuted an illegal war and made the US safe for oligarchy and the mess we have now. If you love Lincoln, then you love the country as it is. That is Lincoln’s legacy to you.

  20. rather be anon
    April 24th, 2014 @ 8:57 am

    I have studied the Confederate Constitution a little, though not nearly as much as the other Constitution. I know two key failings in it.

    1) It goes out of its way to defend slavery. Constitutions should defends RIGHTS, not rights-violations. The 1787 Constitution was written by people too embarrassed to even write the word, let alone mandate its defense within the highest law of the land.
    2) Words are nice and all, but (apart from the pro-slavery stuff) did the Confederate authorities actually respect the constitutionally protected rights of their citizens? From my admittedly limited survey, their over-reaching was in many ways actually worse than what was going on in the North at the time.

  21. Recovering Feminist
    April 24th, 2014 @ 9:40 am

    First World problems are like, serious, man.

    Sounds like some kids need a holiday in Cambodia!

  22. richard mcenroe
    April 24th, 2014 @ 9:44 am

    Actually the Romans invented “total war”. Grant, Sherman and Sheridan were just really really good at it.

    Of course Black Dave Hunter was no slouch either but he was a Southern boy in the wrong color coat.

  23. Dana
    April 24th, 2014 @ 9:45 am

    When he was graduated from West Point, Mr Lee had the highest scores ever achieved at the Military Academy. His record was surpassed by a cadet in he class of 1884; third on the list is Douglas MacArthur in 1903.

    That said, I am not completely impressed by General Lee’s strategy in the War of Northern Aggression. He should have declined battle at Gettysburg, because the Union forces had far the superior positions.

  24. Freddie Sykes
    April 24th, 2014 @ 10:52 am

    My quote was taken from the movie Gettysburg which was based on the book The Killer Angels by Michael Shaara. He definitely came down in the Longstreet camp wrt to that battle. Nobody is perfect: Jackson sleepwalked thru The Seven Days and Grant ordered a second attack at Cold Harbor.

    The War of Northern Aggression? Looked at it in terms of a messy divorce in which the wife kicks her husband out of their house, confiscates all joint possessions in her grasp and then resorts to violence when he does not leave. Who is the aggressor? The husband of course because #waronwomen!

  25. Dana
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:07 pm

    One wonders if the CSA would have been allowed to secede peacefully if they hadn’t fired on Fort Sumpter.

    My guess is that, had the CSA seceded, slavery would have ended, pretty much naturally, by the mid 1880s to 1890s, because it was just such an abysmal economic system.

    Of course, it’s also my pet theory that, had the CSA been able to secede, World War II in Europe would never have occurred. Why? The United States would (probably) not have entered World War I, leaving Germany with a chance, if not for victory, to be able to secure a far better peace, and that would have left Der Führer in a Viennese flop house.

  26. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:27 pm

    It does have weaknesses. But, they meant what they said. We can disagree with them on slavery, and I do, but the North did not invade the south to end slavery, but to keep it in the raw deal the Northeastern money had for them. Slavery was doomed everywhere in the west and the south had already seen the cracks in their edifice. Lincoln, however, couldn’t have cared less.
    If you love Lincoln, then you love his legacy in DC. You have to make a choice.

  27. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:29 pm

    Actually Lincoln wasn’t lying about abolition. He offered a constitutional amendment protecting slavery in perpetuity in hopes of keeping the south. Failing that, and it did fail, he had to create a casus belli, which he did when he lied about Ft. Sumter.
    The entire reason for Lincoln’s illegal war was keep the economic colony the Northeastern industrialists depended on. There was no other reason for the war.

  28. carlito
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:29 pm

    So, what planet are you originally from?

  29. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:33 pm

    And the sins of the north are still ongoing in DC. We still suffer the adverse effects of Lincoln’s illegal war. Slavery was bad, no one disagrees with that. Slavery would have ended without killing over 600,00 men in the two Armies plus an estimated fifth of the southern population as the North’s version of Soviet Army crossed the country.

    The problem with loving Lincoln is what it leads to. Look to DC to see what you admire if you love Lincoln.

  30. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:35 pm

    Toombs tried to get the Confed Cabinet not to order the reduction of Sumter. If they had simply ignored it and let them try to fire on a British ship entering Charleston peacefully, all hell would have broken loose and Lincoln’s war would have been an impossibility. Firing on Sumter gave Lincoln the casus belli he was trying to create.

    Political opinion in the north was to let the original 7 go in peace. The upper south didn’t secede until Lincoln had called for troops. Davis was stupid to fire on Sumter.

  31. Freddie Sykes
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:44 pm

    We will never know although slavery, while still practiced, is now illegal.across the globe.

    I strongly agree that the progressive peace candidate of 1916, Woodrow Wilson, should never have roped us into WWI in 1917. Europe would have been forced to come to terms with its madness and Wilson’s idea that ethnicity was a basis for nationhood would have been less of a disruptive force.

  32. DaveO
    April 24th, 2014 @ 12:58 pm

    Not so. Total war was the norm until the Fredercian wars of the 18th Century. We left total warfare for the Spanish-American war, and then again for Korea, Vietnam, and the Global War of Terror. The nation that fails to go all in in time of war, loses.

  33. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 1:13 pm

    Modern Military Historians look back at the Yankee Army for the beginning of total war. The Romans would “create a desert and call it peace” as they did with Carthage, but it wasn’t their normal method of waging war. With the Yankee Army it was part and parcel of what they were doing to subjugate the South. In so doing they completely delegitimized their cause for all time.

  34. bridget
    April 24th, 2014 @ 1:38 pm

    (Expletive) hell. General Lee’s name is part of that university because his influence on it was so profound that it could not remain merely “Washington College.” He instituted the honour code, which has stood for almost one hundred and fifty years. Dishonouring his memory ought to be grounds for removal.

    I expect this (expletive) from my other alma mater, but W&L? Washington & Lee, that school of Southern tradition, pride, and honour?

    If you don’t like General Lee, find a different school to attend – but you would be hard-pressed to find a better one.

  35. Zohydro
    April 24th, 2014 @ 2:40 pm

    I read somewhere that Hitler’s predecessor, von Hindenburg, was in this country as an “observer” during the Civil War…

  36. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 3:17 pm

    It’s the work of the perpetually outraged. The professional troublemaker.

  37. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 3:18 pm

    Holiday? Leave ’em there for at least a year. Then if they don’t kiss the ground upon lighting on the tarmac in the US, back they go for another year. Refresher courses at need.

  38. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 3:22 pm

    Slavery still exists in the Arab world. A small factoid, last I heard the executioner for the Saudi regime is a Sudanese slave.
    The reason for the slave as executioner is that a slave has no legal existence so there is no blood debt incurred by the execution.

  39. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 3:23 pm


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  41. Freddie Sykes
    April 24th, 2014 @ 4:19 pm

    To tell you the truth, I was thinking of Dar al-Islam when I wrote it.

    Wilson (1916) , FDR (1940) and LBL (1964) all ran as peace candidates.

    FYI: I think you meant “not long” above.

  42. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 5:32 pm

    I did.

  43. Quartermaster
    April 24th, 2014 @ 5:41 pm

    War was generally not against the civilian population. Foraging, such as in the 30 years war, could be as devastating, but that was simply incidental. Actually setting out to destroy the civilian populations ability to support itself was not at all common. You don’t see that happen post 30 years war, until Sherman’s and Sheridan’s campaigns. Rome didn’t do it. Vikings would engage in rape and rapine and usually went home. There were a few places they stayed, but not many places and those they acted a bit differently.

  44. Freddie Sykes
    April 24th, 2014 @ 11:51 pm

    Non sequitur, much? Von Hindenburg was less than 18 years of age by Appomattox. He was still in school at the time. He did not join the Prussian Army until 1866. I could be wrong, but I believe that by then the only confederate army consisted of Josey Wales and a couple of really feisty Native Americans.

    It was Ludendorff who was more closely associated with the rise of Hitler.

  45. Adjoran
    April 25th, 2014 @ 1:27 am

    No, Sumpter was a provocation. The garrison had been allowed to remain with the understanding there would be no reinforcing of numbers and no ordnance brought in, only food and replacements one for one.

    They had to know it would be fired upon.

  46. Zohydro
    April 25th, 2014 @ 6:32 am

    “Senior moment” on my part… The GoOgles informs me that it was Count von Zeppelin (of airship fame) who was the Civil War observer for the Prussians! I must have confused that with the zeppelin Hindenburg in my mind… Sry!

  47. Zohydro
    April 25th, 2014 @ 7:13 am

    As for “non sequitur”, it was “Dana” who raised a WWII connection, so I don’t consider my reply a non sequitur at all!

  48. Freddie Sykes
    April 25th, 2014 @ 10:04 am

    Sorry. I always get on guard when someone uses the H-word.

  49. Freddie Sykes
    April 25th, 2014 @ 10:22 am

    Back in the day, everyone sent observers who rarely learned a darn thing from the conflict. George McClellan was an observer in the Crimea but never learned what to do with an army.