The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Dear Time: Per The Bible, Churches Still Admit Sinners; Yet They Still Reject Sin

Posted on | January 16, 2015 | 132 Comments

by Smitty

I guess the relentless, nihilistic spiritual decay of Progress can’t help but project itself upon churches:

. . .the changing allegiances and divides in evangelical churches and communities over homosexuality. In public, so many churches and pastors are afraid to talk about the generational and societal shifts happening. But behind the scenes, it’s a whole different game. Support for gay marriage across all age groups of white evangelicals has increased by double digits over the past decade, according to the Public Religion Research Institute, and the fastest change can be found among younger evangelicals—their support for gay marriage jumped from 20% in 2003 to 42% in 2014.

This winter, EastLake Community Church outside Seattle is quietly coming out as one of the first evangelical megachurches in the country to support full inclusion and affirmation of LGBTQ people. It is almost impossible to overstate the significance of this move. EastLake is in many ways the quintessential evangelical megachurch–thousands-strong attendance, rock-music worship, Bible-preaching sermons. But pastor Ryan Meeks, 36, is on the front wave of a new choice. “I refuse to go to a church where my friends who are gay are excluded from Communion or a marriage covenant or the beauty of Christian community,” Meeks tells me. “It is a move of integrity for me—the message of Jesus was a message of wide inclusivity.”

Ryan Meeks is encouraged to re-read the Bible in general and the Roman and Corinthian Epistles in particular. The Bible is our compass; Christ is our course. Yes, we get off course from time to time, but the only one smiling when somebody in a leadership position declares a false course to be the new true is Satan. Sure, technology has afforded some brand new ways to get off course. Yes, all manner of folk have been in the doors of my church. Indeed, we’re not going all Jonathan Edwards on them Sunday for Sunday.

But Elizabeth Dias is welcome to swing on by any traditional Baptist church to discover (a) the unalloyed Gospel still being preached, and (b) Christians rejecting the sort of rot she’s peddling.

Who knows? A little repentance may find her, too, as it has me.

via Hot Air headlines


132 Responses to “Dear Time: Per The Bible, Churches Still Admit Sinners; Yet They Still Reject Sin”

  1. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 2:23 pm

    Agreed. It’s just easier to hide in a mega church, or get ignored, which is worse.

  2. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 2:25 pm

    You need to learn what the word “context” means. That’s not all God had to say about the issue. And, once more, warning of judgement is not judging. Christ will be the judge all stand before, in the end, however, and amnesty is extended for now, but that will come to an end. That danger is the one you ignore in your silly posts.

  3. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 2:28 pm

    Another quote out of context.

  4. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 2:31 pm

    On the contrary, they are way off the path. Both are far more aberrant than Calvinism.

  5. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 2:32 pm

    The earlier Dogma (pre-Augsutine) is pretty solid, but with Augustine, they stated off the path. By Trent, the RCC was lost. Subsequent councils have made it worse. The Orthodox Churches have slowly drifted off the path, but are no where near as far off as the RCC.

  6. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 2:34 pm

    The way Paul put it, divorce was not an option just because the partner was an unbeliever. If the unbeliever left, however, let them go and don’t fight it.

  7. AJC1973
    January 18th, 2015 @ 5:42 pm

    I posted the entirety of Romans 2 how is it out of context?

  8. AJC1973
    January 18th, 2015 @ 5:52 pm

    You continue to tell me i need to learn what the word “context” means, please by all means educate me brother, you had the chance,

    I have continued to agree that one can teach the dangers of sin without being judgmental.


    there is a fine line between warning of judgement and judgement

    The true danger is the belief that one can walk on both sides of that line and No one will notice.

  9. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 8:04 pm

    You are simply being willfully obtuse. There is no fine line between the two. You simply wish there were so you can continue to troll the site.

  10. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 8:06 pm

    You don’t understand there is context beyond the local. Your knowledge of Bible study and, particularly, exegesis, is quite limited.

  11. Quartermaster
    January 18th, 2015 @ 8:54 pm

    Get a copy of “Living By The Book” by Howard and William Hendricks. Study it and learn what it really means to study God’s word.

  12. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 9:14 am

    A cogent question my squidly friend. If there is little to no change over time one needs to question the lack of change. Grace imparts it’s own signs on a person and anyone walking a path of redemption can be monitored by the changes in his/her life.
    Hope all is well with you, the Mrs and two small boys … who never fail to kindle a smile and a little happy spot in my heart whenever they grace the pages of TOM.

  13. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 9:16 am

    I am that …

  14. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 9:18 am

    We are a definite minority here in FLA!

  15. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 9:33 am

    Salvation from sin and forgiveness of sin is only available through Baptism, belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ and His perfect sacrifice on the cross for the forgiveness of sin, and the reformation of ones life to overcome sin. This continues today for Christ told us that no ones comes unto the Father but through Him. He also told the Apostles that whatever they bind on earth is bound in heaven and what they free on earth will be freed in heaven. This same power has been passed down from the Apostles in direct, unbroken lineage through the Sacrament of Holy Orders as maintained for over two millennia in the Eastern Orthodox Church, Apostle to disciple (Priest) and Apostle to successor (Bishop)

  16. dwduck
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:38 am

    Oh, dear, you’re not pretending to confer Holy Orders on yourself now too, are you?

  17. dwduck
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:44 am

    This is a tough one — how do you guard against works without faith?

  18. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:45 am

    No. Haters gotta hate. Idiots gotta be asshats. I hope that was simple enough for you.

  19. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:48 am

    Works without faith fail in rapid order as there is no efficacy to them. They self eliminate.

  20. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:51 am

    He is willfully confusing discernment with judging. A common tactic of those who are false christians and seek to divide from within.

  21. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:52 am

    Ahhh… so it’s okay for you to judge us but we, you? All of your comments here are judgemental and not the result of discernment.

  22. Paul H. Lemmen
    January 19th, 2015 @ 11:56 am

    Well stated RS!

  23. Quartermaster
    January 19th, 2015 @ 12:39 pm

    The most important things a believer can do is engage in a disciplined prayer life, and consistent bible study and devotions. The Holy Spirit uses those things to speak to us and remind us what brings salvation, and it feeds your faith as well.

    The biggest danger I’ve seen, and this applies to those who hold inadmissible grace (once saved, always saved) is the loss of the lesson James teaches us. The Books of Romans and James are a pair that need to be taken together.

  24. Quartermaster
    January 19th, 2015 @ 12:41 pm

    Yes, indeed!

  25. Juliette Akinyi Ochieng
    January 21st, 2015 @ 12:35 am

    You do know what the Eye of the Needle [Gate] is, no? Hint: it isn’t something for sewing. And the story of the rich young ruler is about giving up something that one loves more than God, not about all rich people giving all their money to the poor.

    Many Christians need to remember that the Bible versions we read were composed in other languages, are about other cultures, and are set in another time. Oh yes and there’s this thing called context.

  26. DeadMessenger
    January 21st, 2015 @ 12:47 am

    Of course I know these things.

    However, the context of the rich prince who loved material goods more than he loved God is similar to the context of the man in Adjoran’s comment, who also appears to love mammon.

    My reply was intended as a contextual remark specifically relative to that view, rather than as an exhaustive exegesis of lengthy Scriptural passages.

  27. Juliette Akinyi Ochieng
    January 21st, 2015 @ 12:56 am

    Okay. Then I don’t see what the problem is about a pastor saying that God will deal with him if he misuses the money. That is written. Old Testament. God is especially harsh on those who lead His people astray.

  28. DeadMessenger
    January 21st, 2015 @ 1:03 am

    You don’t see anything wrong with a man who refuses to preach God’s Word until fundraising goals are met?

  29. Juliette Akinyi Ochieng
    January 21st, 2015 @ 1:20 am

    A person might not want to be associated with such a ministry, but is there something proscribing this in the Bible? And the two money passages cited are only conjecture about whether such a pastor *loved* money or not, which is why I thought that this was what you meant. My apologies if you did not mean that.

  30. DeadMessenger
    January 21st, 2015 @ 2:25 am

    Withholding the Word from spiritually hungry seekers has no Biblical precedence. Look at the works of Christ Himself. He fed the masses both spiritually and physically. By observing the methology of Jesus, and the first century disciples, we DO see a Biblical proscription, certainly in terms of typology. We also see a Scriptural proscription in 1 Cor 10:1, in the sense that the withholding of spiritual food does not bring glory to God. Indeed, it dishonors Him.

    For these reasons, I would not only reject such a “pastor”, but I would rebuke him. Which I would have done directly, except he’s dead. Oh, and furthermore, his angry implication that no one had the right to judge him was completely false; we are commanded to righteously judge.

  31. Juliette Akinyi Ochieng
    January 21st, 2015 @ 3:10 am

    If a person chooses to be under a given ministry, one should follow what Paul said in Galatians 6:6. As I implied, if one doesnt trust that his pastor will do right by the tithes and offerings, that person is free to and should go elsewhere … a proper judgment. (FTR, I’m not one of those who is unable to discern between God’s judgment of one’s salvation and necessary human discernment.)

    However, if one chooses to sit under that ministry, it is also necessary to trust in God that He will correct his representative should he err. (Of course, it necessary to trust God, period.)

    And Paul stated that flocks are to koinonia with their teacher (Gal. 6:6) something Jesus did not address for His own ministry for obvious reasons.

    Remember this: the Philippian Church was the only one which Paul had no correction for in this matter.

    However, the manner of correction is a matter of taste.

  32. DeadMessenger
    January 21st, 2015 @ 3:48 am

    I view such ones as false prophets. False prophets will not listen to God’s correction, as they are not ordained or informed by Him. The fact that upon Gene Scott’s death, his wife took over for him, in opposition to Paul’s view on women pastors, only serves to confirm this in my mind. My views are quite fundamentalist, so I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.