The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Women: Can’t Live With Them, Can’t Live With ‘Em

Posted on | March 2, 2013 | 38 Comments

by Smitty

The title is about as negative as I ever get about women while having a conversation. It’s symmetric about the gender line, and I hope the ladies appropriate it as well. It relieves the very real tension about the gender divide in a joking way that doesn’t widen the gap.

All that is a lead-in to saying that Steven Crowder, again, is spot-on here:

When men get together, they moan about their wives. The commentary provided on marriage between groups of men, is typically one from a viewpoint that assumes marriage to be life’s greatest, most unfun mistake. Not only is it often as disingenuous as Joe Biden’s hairline, but it’s incredibly harmful.
Firstly, there may be some people out there who actually believe their wife to merely be the “old ball and chain.” To you I say… you are a loser. Not only are you a loser for dishonoring the woman who is now an extension of yourself, but you’re a loser for picking someone who you hate having to come home to every night. What kind of an idiot are you to marry a person that you think is an absolute moron?
These same people are shocked when I don’t chime in on their urinate-and-moan-fests regarding their old maids. Yeah, imagine that!

There are some amusing words, like Hausdrachen, that point to the universality of spousal complaints, but I’ll double down on Steven’s conclusion: grow up. Trashing other people in general, and one’s spouse in particular, is a sign of immaturity. That’s why, when I hear other men do that, I trot out this post’s title. It’s good to acknowledge what was said, and hint at a bit of empathy, without delving into sympathy. Because then we’re just perpetuating a bad thing.


38 Responses to “Women: Can’t Live With Them, Can’t Live With ‘Em”

  1. 9746LAK
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 10:18 am

    RT @smitty_one_each: Women: Can’t Live With Them, Can’t Live With ‘Em #TCOT #TGDN

  2. conservativelez
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 10:33 am

    RT @smitty_one_each: Women: Can’t Live With Them, Can’t Live With ‘Em #TCOT #TGDN

  3. conservativelez
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 10:36 am

    .@smitty_one_each @scrowder Thanks for column/post, glow on my late life partner’s face is from praise every day…

  4. conservativelez
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 10:39 am

    .@smitty_one_each @scrowder … for over 20 years. Photo was taken as she was dying, a couple of weeks before she died. #powerofpraise

  5. Chris Wysocki
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 10:54 am

    My wife’s lady friends do the same thing. All they do is bitch about their husbands. When she says nice things about me they look at her like she’s from outer space. Then they wonder why she doesn’t join them for coffee in the mornings when all they want to do is complain about how horrible their husbands are.

    Interestingly though, the guys I hang with generally say positive things about their wives, when we discuss them at all. Mostly we talk about sports.

  6. jakee308
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 10:58 am

    I’d pay more attention to Mr. Crowder if he wasn’t just newly wed. (under a year I believe).

    Let him write another in 10 and at least one kid.

    We’ll see what he has to say then when the icing on the cake has gotten hard and crusty and there’s some mold on the corner of the slice.

    The main complaint that is valid is that marriage ain’t what it’s cracked up to be. What we all thought marriage was like, was for, was meant to be is not what it IS.

    This applies for both men and women. The real divide in the country at large is that women have all the incentives to NOT try to muddle through when the going gets tough or boring or tedious. Too many bail when their expectations aren’t meant and we can thank government and out of control divorce courts for that situation.

    Regardless of all the statistics about divorced men having it so good and women having it so bad, those situations are actually few and far between and generally any assets garnered to that point wind up under the control of the female. women have it worse in some ways because they weren’t prepared to assume complete economic control of a family thus needing assistance whereas men have to face life from the git go as being all on them.

    Good luck to anyone who’s got a viable and pleasant marriage. You’re one of the lucky ones that everyone tries to aim for.

  7. Evi L. Bloggerlady
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 11:12 am

    From what I observe, marriage is a process. It does not magically happen. It is a journey. Most men who are happily married do not complain about their wives to others (except perhaps confiding in a close friend of struggles and challenges being faced, and then not in terms of one sided complaining).

    Women certainly dish. But again, those in happy marriages do not dish like this.

    Most men seem to talk sports, like Wysocki says.

    But what do I know, I am just a cow. Moo.

  8. JeffWeimer
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 11:34 am

    FTR, my wife is an absolute saint, the least of which is putting up with my idio(t)syncracies. What she has done so far to help our youngest daughter overcome her disabilities deserves more thanks than I can give her in my lifetime.

  9. Eric Ashley
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 11:38 am

    Getting rid of No Fault Divorce should be a higher priority than Gay Marriage. Both are BAD but NFD affects orders of magnitude more people.

    This could serve as an Inchon moment. Not only do we stop the Left with its attempted destruction of Christian values, but we throw them into confusion, and retake much lost ground.

    As for the sweetheart you married, remember she or he was made in God’s image, and is a sinner, and in need of grace. And God has chosen you as one of his chief means of giving them grace.

  10. JackAfter6
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 11:52 am

    Marriage…it’s like there we were happy bachelors and one day for no reason at all we decided that we wanted more. We wanted a family. We wanted the American Dream, wife, kids, Fido, and all that goes with it. Was it a mistake? Well, yes and no. But, Mr. Crowder, if I want to bitch about my wife, my kids, my dog, or anything that goes with all of that, well who else has a bigger right to than me? It’s like showing everybody your scars. Look at this one. Got this one in Grenada. See this one? That was when I took a header off the highdive too close to the board….and on and on and on. What else are you going to talk about? Sports? Politics? Your kid’s ballet recital? STFU n00b!

  11. Eric Ashley
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 11:55 am

    We primarily talk about politics around here.

  12. Dystopia Max
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 12:26 pm

    On the contrary, no one has any right to complain about their wife except the husband, who knows her emotional state beyond what she shows to the world.

    If you’re not going to defend the rights of a husband, a father, and a lover, you can’t really talk about defending the Rights of Man. Real maturity is when you can recognize what most men actually go through and support them in their dark moments, not jumping on them for SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT WOMEN.

    If you think the opinions of women are the most important things in the world, then by all means, join the Democrats already.

  13. rrpjr
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 12:29 pm

    I don’t know any married couples I’d consider “happy.” They mostly seemed beaten down and reconciled to the condition. My parents stayed together but I wouldn’t consider their marriage “happy” — in many ways it was a fierce struggle of identities; it wore us all down. They certainly provided well but emotionally speaking, home life was not easy. Was that worse than divorce? For them and/or the children? I honestly don’t know. Probably a major reason I’ve never married. In addition, American women are a troubled lot. There are exceptions of course, but we’re dealing with a culture that basically mutilates the possibility of femininity at an early age, just as it degrades the classic masculine concept (I don’t mean “submissive” on one hand, or “macho” on the other).

    As for other men, we talk culture, art and politics. Never sports. I’m fortunate in my male friends — good, interesting people.

  14. badanov
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 12:30 pm

    Sumarrizing Crowder and Smitty:

    STFU you knuckle draggers. Women can’t stand criticism, so we won’t either!

  15. smitty
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 1:11 pm

    Real maturity is when you can recognize what most men actually go through and support them in their dark moments, not jumping on them for SAYING BAD THINGS ABOUT WOMEN.

    Which was what I was getting at with my “empathize without sympathizing” point.

  16. smitty
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 1:12 pm

    I’m happy. Wouldn’t accuse either myself or spouse of perfection, but wouldn’t jeopardize it for all the tea in China.

  17. smitty
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 1:13 pm

    You should re-read both of us, because it’s possible you’ve over-simplified.

  18. Chap
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 2:08 pm

    No way am I going to diss my better half outside the marriage. Not going to happen.

  19. gvanderleun
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 2:09 pm

    “Women. Can’t live with ’em. Can’t shoot ’em.”

    “Women. Can’t live with ’em. Can’t get them to put on a skimpy little Nazi costume.”

  20. Adjoran
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 2:22 pm

    Better tell Smitty. 😉

  21. Proof
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 3:35 pm

    Then, there’s the old joke that asks, “Why are divorces so expensive?”
    A: Because they’re worth it!

  22. ThomasD
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 4:26 pm

    A few Friday’s ago my wife went for a ladies night out. Turns out this time it was at a ‘new’ house so didn’t involve the usual suspects. Apparently a large portion of that night consisted of a serious bitch fest . When she got home late that night she woke me up to tell me what a horrible night it was and that she felt very out of place. Which certainly could have waited until the morning, but who was I to complain.

    Our life together has never been perfect, and we struggle, but we always struggle to make it better, together.

    If you are lucky enough to be the kind of person who finds hard work rewarding then you too can have a happy marriage. If only for all the work it surely involves.

  23. ThomasD
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 4:33 pm

    Never say never…

  24. Roxeanne de Luca
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 4:46 pm

    Not only are you a loser for dishonoring the woman who is now an
    extension of yourself, but you’re a loser for picking someone who you
    hate having to come home to every night. What kind of an idiot are you
    to marry a person that you think is an absolute moron?

    I have pretty much the same thing to say to women who marry men whom they do not respect. Presumably, part of the dating process is winnowing out the losers, so that when you do marry, it’s to someone whom you respect with every ounce of your soul.

    I do not not get on women’s cases (or men’s cases) for dating bad people, or going out for a cup of coffee with someone who later turns out to be a whack job. I do get on their cases for having the terminal stupidity to continue to date them, marry them, sleep with them. and have babies with them (sometimes, or often, not in that order).

    Yeah, I know stuff changes over the years, but I find it hard to comprehend the notion of marrying someone whom you do not respect.

  25. JackAfter6
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 6:52 pm

    The irony! Sure, I love talking politics….but when I’m at a party and I start talking about Benghazi or about Fast and Furious….my wife goes…”Oh no! You’ve started it now. Get ready for five hours of bored to tears boring boredom. Obama Obama Obama! For five years it’s been nothing but Obama. I wonder sometimes if I’m just the mistress and Obama is his wife….why just the other day…” and on and on and on….

  26. gvanderleun
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 7:02 pm

    Unless under police interrogation.

  27. Shawny Lee
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 7:13 pm

    Has anyone noticed this is the platinum age of whiners? Not just in marriage either. People commit themselves to a job or a mate they choose and then when it disappoints, rather than take responsibility for their own bad choice and doing something to change things, they bitch and moan, sharing that grief and inability to act with others instead. What kind of lame martyr complex is that anyway? With marriage, perhaps in earlier days the tools to deal with disappointments and work through the “for better or worse” parts were better taught or passed down. For the most part, these days, individuals have little to no experience in dealing with the “worse” part nor having to strive together through hardships and sorrow that strengthen their bond. So when they take that vow, it’s like a shiny new conservative Senator with all the right intentions.

  28. Shawny Lee
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 7:16 pm

    lol….ah but yer a wise heifer.

  29. Shawny Lee
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 7:51 pm

    Well, and where is saying bad things about women rather than focusing on whatever the problem or situation is considered real maturity?

  30. Shawny Lee
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 9:19 pm

    …..Or reconsider your reasons for marrying a woman instead of a man to begin with if you view their opinions as less important/valid than mens and you’re more concerned with the “rights of man” than resolving issues in whatever individual relationship you’ve committed yourself in. Men instinctively know better than to voice that kind of bias when they’re dating or trying find a mate. Marriage must bring on convenient amnesia, meaning some false messages were sent to begin with. Or do men intentionally seek out partners they can feel superior to because they’re insecure themselves? Not like the real maturity of treating a partner as an equal or considering how you would feel if bad things said by someone you love about yourself came back to you.

  31. Quartermaster
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 9:24 pm

    Of you? Yes. Crowder, however, is just a bit more…shrill, shall we say.

    I’ve been married 38 years to a woman that seemed like a ray of sunshine back when. I’d really, really like to get away from her now because she is basically an unhappy person, something she revealed about 12 months into the marriage.

    The reasons I stay shall remain classified for now, but many times things are simply out of your control, and no matter what you do nothing changes. I’m gald you’re happy, but Crowder is just a bit thin on the experience side at this point and it would be better if he shut up and did a little listening himself.

  32. Dana
    March 2nd, 2013 @ 9:33 pm

    The great American philosopher, Sam Kinnison, put it very succinctly. You have two choices: you can either love women, or fellate a big penis. (This is not quite a direct quote; Mr Kinnison did employ some slang terms.)

    As for me, I’ve been married to a great woman for 3 years, 9 months and 11 days so far.

  33. Eric Ashley
    March 3rd, 2013 @ 2:39 am

    Smile gently, and then say softly and clearly ‘not so much.’ Wait a beat, and if it continues or she attacks you, politely disagree in brief form. At this point she’s likely to stomp off, and you can calmly continue on ewith your discussion.

    This does require self-control and greater emotional maturity, but you seem to think you have those so that’s all good.

    Later she will likely castigate you in private, Do Not unload on her at that time. Just smile and disagree, polite and brief.

  34. jakee308
    March 3rd, 2013 @ 9:57 am

    So. How long did you try the other choice? 🙂

  35. McGehee
    March 3rd, 2013 @ 11:29 am

    The secret to at least one happy marriage of which I have extensive firsthand knowledge, is laughter. She laughs at me, and I laugh at me.

  36. Bob Belvedere
    March 3rd, 2013 @ 6:57 pm

    Same here. Actually, I’m happier thirteen years into it.

  37. Bob Belvedere
    March 3rd, 2013 @ 7:00 pm

    Heh. I would just amend that, in my case, to: She laughs at me and laughs with me and laughs at my jokes.

  38. DaveO
    March 3rd, 2013 @ 7:11 pm

    Now that’s funny! Thank you for the laugh!