The Other McCain

"One should either write ruthlessly what one believes to be the truth, or else shut up." — Arthur Koestler

Disapprove of Gay Sex With Teenagers? ‘In That Case Just Shut Your Mouth’

Posted on | December 7, 2013 | 433 Comments

Neutral Objective Journalism:

A columnist for the Huffington Post site says it is homophobic to criticize gay men who use Internet sex sites to meet teenage partners and only “bigots” are offended by such “nurturing intergenerational bonds.”
Publicity about a relationship between 39-year-old Hollywood screenwriter Dustin Lance Black and 19-year-old British diving champion Tom Daley has inspired criticism even from some gay rights activists.
Joshua Epstein, a blogger who identifies himself as a gay progressive Democrat, reacted to the Black-Daley affair on Twitter: “He could be his father. Yuk.” That reaction was condemned by Huffington Post columnist Michelangelo Signorile, who said only “internalized homophobia” could cause gays to criticize such relationships.
“There is an undercurrent in these comments — the ‘chicken hawk’ charge — that suggests that gay men are more likely to sexually abuse underage teens, the ugliest lie about gay men out there,” Signorile wrote Friday in Huffington Post’s “Gay Voices” section. “Hardcore homophobes are predictably pointing to Black and Daley as supposed proof. But many gay men too, so defensive about the charge and deathly fearful of how it’s used, overcompensate by saying ‘yuk.'”
Signorile specifically defended sites that promote “intergenerational” gay sex. “Some younger people are attracted to older people, and vice versa,” he wrote. “There’s even a gay website called Daddyhunt. The famed novelist Armistead Maupin’s 27-years-younger husband, Christopher Turner, founded it. The met on another one of Turner’s sites, HotOlderMale.com. If that’s not your thing, it’s totally cool, but in that case just shut your mouth.” . . .

Read the whole thing at The American Spectator.

 

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Comments

  • NeoWayland

    You clearly cannot face that Science comprises all scientific materials, texts (which contain claims, explanations, proposals), experiments, and treatments ever devised by people in a scientific context.

    Emphasis added. But you capitalized Science here. Higher authority indeed.

    The science existed before the materials, the texts, the experiments, and treatments. Take all that away and science will continue as long as we humans ask questions. Experience and knowledge make the questions better, that’s all.

    When Goddard first published his work, he made a few comments about how rockets might lead to space travel. In America for years afterward, science was used to “prove” that rockets couldn’t possibly work in space. Then after WWII, the German scientists were asked where they had learned all this stuff about rockets. “From your Dr. Goddard” came the answer. So people looked at all those facts and figures again. And they decided that Goddard just might have been right.

    Science didn’t change. The people did. If you tell me “scientifically” that all good bouncy balls are red, I don’t have to examine every single ball. I just have to find one blue ball that bounces high.

    Meanwhile I just knocked a huge prop out from your anti-homosexuality just by using science. I couldn’t have done that if you hadn’t been using “science” to justify your attacks.

  • NeoWayland

    Freud or Jung don’t make any of your claims that being psychologically deformed is genetically determined.

    “Psychologically deformed” is your unproven phrase, not mine.

    My case rests on including the biology. Something you seem determined to ignore.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    “When Goddard first published his work, he made a few comments about how rockets might lead to space travel.”

    Yet, according to you, science doesn’t include texts containing claims or explanations! You must be talking about Godard, the new wave film director…

    “Science didn’t change. The people did.”

    LOL You are right, science never changes. Why, it’s like it was written in stone! What is written in stone never changes, does it?

    “If you tell me “scientifically” that all good bouncy balls are red, I
    don’t have to examine every single ball. I just have to find one blue ball that bounces high.”

    But I can’t tell you “scientifically” that all good bouncy balls are red because that would be a claim. And as you clearly and so intelligently proved (hahaha!), science never contains any claims!

    “Meanwhile I just knocked a huge prop out from your anti-homosexuality just by using science.”

    Science, indeed! hahahahhahah
    You don’t know just how scientific you are! It’s your modesty, I imagine…

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    I’ll repeat your great trolling for you: “Claims, explanations, and proposals come from people, not science.”

    Here you are making claims and giving explanations- instead of presenting your great Science!

    Too bad you don’t have a scientific case! But you do have a great trolling one.

  • NeoWayland

    Goddard writing about his work wasn’t science, it described science.

    A map isn’t Chicago, it describes Chicago.

  • NeoWayland

    I gave concrete, measurable examples of biology that you ignore only at your peril. I pointed out that two of the biggest names in psychology advocated the whole person including those pesky “animal impulses.”

    Those are things that your version of “science” (note the quotes) ignore.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    Likewise, you writing about science isn’t science either… So you have been completely incapable of using science to prove anything. You writing about science is not science! But it is nice trolling.

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  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    Yet nothing that you wrote is scientific! My, you clearly don’t know anything about Science! You never write anything that is scientific.

    And now you’ve gone off making up claims that I ignore things which I don’t ignore. Slow Tuesday in Troll-land…

  • NeoWayland

    What I am writing here isn’t science, but then I didn’t claim that it was.

    My point was and is to show that your arguments don’t even describe science. You’re using the “Higher Authority of Science” to dismiss any claim that homosexuality might have a biological basis. All I have to do is show one thing that doesn’t fit and your argument crashes down.

  • NeoWayland

    Yet nothing that you wrote is scientific!

    I didn’t say it was.

    You did ignore activities which you have done and must continue to do, despite your claims that “The human mind is profoundly deformable – and that all happens after birth.”

    As should be obvious, these are biological imperatives that do not wait for you to decide.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    And you’re using the “Higher Authority of Trolling” to dismiss any claim you don’t like. All you have to do is to claim that Science and everything else is what you say it is – and every other argument just comes crashing down. Why, it’s like magic!
    But since nothing you write has anything to do with science – it must mean that you don’t know any science. But you are very good with magic! And trolling!

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    “and that all happens after birth.”

    that’s your trolling phrase – not my writing.

  • NeoWayland

    Strange logic there.

    Because I haven’t used science here, you think I must not have anything to do with science, and therefore conclude I do not know anything about science.

    That isn’t even the either/or you used before, it’s just sad.

    Meanwhile, the only way you can make your “science” work is by ignoring facts you don’t like. That certainly isn’t science.

  • NeoWayland

    You never write anything that is scientific.

    Nor do you. Science isn’t about presenting conclusions, it’s about finding answers that work.

    And now you’ve gone off making up claims that I ignore things which I don’t ignore.

    Sleeping, eating, drinking, breathing. All drives which you can’t ignore and examples of biology that happen despite experiences, culture, and psychology.

  • NeoWayland

    On the contrary. I would say the problem with your assumption is that you imagine the human brain to be equal to that of an ant (or other animals). The human mind is profoundly deformable – and that all happens after birth.

    That’s a direct quote from you.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    Oh my, it looks like I’m sad and you’re gay!

    Funny that the only way you can make your non-scientific claims work is by completely ignoring science! And, as I have pointed out to your before, your comments certainly aren’t science! What you show here is just ignorance of what is science.

    You have been completely incapable of using science to prove anything of what you think about homosexuality.

    Nothing strange about that.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    “You never write anything that is scientific.”

    Neo said: “Nor do you. Science isn’t about presenting conclusions, it’s about finding answers that work.”

    So again, nothing you write here is Science. You’re completely ignorant about Science, aren’t you?

    Obviously, your claims about what Science is or isn’t aren’t scientific either. Why, it’s just like if had gone off and shot off your mouth and claimed to be right about everything!

    The Science of Trolling! LOL

    ==================

    Alessandra said: “And now you’ve gone off making up claims that I ignore things which I don’t ignore.”

    Neo said: “Sleeping, eating, drinking, breathing. All drives which you can’t ignore and examples of biology that happen despite experiences, culture, and psychology.”

    Apparently you continue to claim that I ignore things which I don’t ignore.

    BTW, nothing you wrote above is Science!

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    What I wrote you can’t or don’t want to understand correctly, it appears.

    The human mind only gets deformed into having a homosexuality problem after birth – the same with pedophilia, etc. All of this kind of deformation happens after birth, not before, thus, “that all happens after birth.”

    I was not referring to eating or to the other activities you inserted that have nothing to do with homosexuality. You want to change the topic away from homosexuality. That’s your trolling.

  • NeoWayland

    Oh my, it looks like I’m sad and you’re gay!

    No, I’m straight. I just don’t think what consenting adults do is anyone else’s business.

    I haven’t ignored science. I’ve spent this thread pointing out how you selectively misapply science.

  • NeoWayland

    So let me get this straight, I quote you, you tell me you didn’t say that, and when I point out you did you tell me I don’t understand. Curious.

    You’re off base though. For now we’ll leave aside the bit about assuming homosexuality is a problem. Since homosexuality exists among different species, then it is probably biological. You can’t ignore sex drives any more than can ignore the drive to eat or sleep. Sooner or later, you have to do it. Those biological needs are a part of you and were there long before you experienced culture and psychology. Those pesky animal urges shaped how you deal with the rest of your life. Since the impulses are hardwired into your emotions, they certainly control how you feel about your life.

    P.S. The biological needs started long before your birth.

  • NeoWayland

    I’ve read enough of your stuff to understand why you misuse Science as a Higher Authority, One That Must Not Be Questioned. I can advocate science without being “scientific.” I don’t need test tubes, a microscope, or a Geiger counter to lend credibility.

    I can defend human rights without being gay, a woman, Navajo, disabled, or a money-grubbing politico.

    I can promote religious freedom without being Jewish, Catholic, Muslim, Protestant, Buddhist, or atheist.

    I can even type a few replies before I’ve eaten breakfast. Not before my tea though, I’m good but not that good.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    You’ve spent this entire thread trolling and ignoring science. Every single comment you make has no Science in it! It’s nothing but trolling!

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    “So let me get this straight, I quote you, you tell me you didn’t say
    that, and when I point out you did you tell me I don’t understand.
    Curious.”
    ==========

    In other words, I write something. You don’t understand what I write. You quote me misinterpreting what I write. I point out that you are misinterpreting what I write. I explain what it is that I wrote. You repeat your misinterpretation and say that I don’t know what I am writing!

    LOL

    It’s not curious! It’s called trolling!

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    I can advocate science without being “scientific.”
    =============
    You can advocate anything and think that you are right all the time- so in touch with your own reality that you are. And you can always claim to be right about everything, even while being completely ignorant about Science.

    It’s called trolling! LOL

  • NeoWayland

    Still taking refuge in Higher Authority.

    Pity science doesn’t work like that.

  • NeoWayland

    You still haven’t addressed the point. Homosexual behavior occurs in other species without culture and without the psychological motives you claim caused it.

    Your argument doesn’t work.

    And then when I show you, giving you the exact context, you call it trolling.

    I am not surprised.

    I’m thinking of calling your on your statistics next time around.

  • NeoWayland

    I don’t think I’m always right, I just don’t think anyone is absolutely right.

    And I do not approve of someone misusing science to condemn other people.

    Invoke science as an unquestionable authority and someone will show the truth behind the curtain. That’s the nature of science.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    Homosexual behavior occurs in other species without culture and without the psychological motives you claim caused it.
    =======
    The problem with this logic is that it assumes that a particular type of behavior always has the same causal elements across all species. This is a clear mistake.

    And, as you can see, this logic also assumes that culture and experience have no impact on behavior, whether regarding humans or animals. It’s not only humans that have their psychology shaped by experience, many animals do too. And depending on how you define culture, it would seem that some animals might have their own kind of culture as well.

    Homosexual behavior can be caused in different species by different sets of reasons, even if we only compare animals to animals. And certainly in comparing humans with animals, the reasons are going to be different. The fundamental reason for this is that we don’t have the brain of an ant. Our brains are unique in many ways.

  • NeoWayland

    Sleeping occurs in different species. Breathing occurs in different species. Eating occurs in different species.

    It’s in the biology.

    You based your argument on the assumption that there was no biological reason for homosexuality.

    Logic means this part of your argument fails spectacularly.

  • http://alessandrareflections.wordpress.com/ Alessandra

    Sleeping is not homosexuality. Neither is breathing, nor is eating. Your logic fails spectacularly. And more of your lack of Science.

  • NeoWayland

    Sleeping is not homosexuality. Neither is breathing, nor is eating.

    No, but they all are part of the biology. I’ve already answered this bit several times before on this thread. Here’s a short piece of what I said.

    Since homosexuality exists among different species, then it is probably biological. You can’t ignore sex drives any more than can ignore the drive to eat or sleep. Sooner or later, you have to do it.

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