by Smitty
Here is some wisdom worth capturing (emphasis mine):
Battered by the religious wars of the Reformation, making adjustments to a global economy and multi-cultured nations, the West has slowly become diffident in defense of its central faith. And there is some wisdom in that. Christianity is a religion, to paraphrase St. Paul, that frees us for freedom, and faith in Christ must be chosen freely to be fully realized. But to move from that position — which calls for intellectual rigor, unfettered debate and honest proselytism — to indiscriminate acceptance of all creeds as equally worthwhile is an error that does the world more harm than good.
Whenever I hear someone announce that “All religions are a path to God!” I wonder how it would work if you applied such “tolerance” to, say, medicine or science. “All medicines are a path to health! You take antibiotics, I cut the head off a chicken and dance under the full moon, really what’s the difference as long as we both believe it will make us well?” Or “All science is a path to progress! You invent an iPhone, I invent a weaponized disease, it’s all science, man, it’s all great!”
When you put it this way, it becomes clear that the idea that all religions are equally worthwhile is essentially an atheist creed. To say All religions are a path to God is really saying, No religion is a path to God. There is no God, so what difference does your religion make? When something is true, when it is factual, when it is real, it excludes other options. The world can’t be both flat and round. When you accept the roundness of it, you can no longer entertain its flatness. It’s one or the other.
If God is the Christian God of love, he is not the Allah of Isis.
Indeed, there is one true North, and doing rudderless doughnuts, while passing occasionally through the only valid course, is foolishness.
I am open that some different medical traditions are alternative paths to health and some are pure quackery (or worse).
I do not get too hung up on who has the ultimate truth (I assume I am right, but I assume that about a lot of things–and I have found that is not always the case). But I am pretty good at recognizing evil when I see it.
I absolutely do not think of all Muslims being evil, but I know ISIS/Daesh is evil. “Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.” Luke 6:44
I don’t know why Christianity can’t be the only religion that’s right.
According to the left, it’s the only religion that’s wrong.
Not all religions are a pathway to God…
…but they’re all a pathway to somewhere! (You should beware!)
If every religion gets you to God, then, OK: Jim Jones went to Heaven.
Does that idea still hold water?
Obviously not. Christ warned not all who profess to be Christians are so. “For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Mark 13:22
For any religion to be the one correct religion, it must first explain the origin of the universe, and of life on Earth. Note that the big bang theory and evolution explain neither. Next it’s “history” and beliefs cannot have been proven false by our new understanding of the history of Earth or by our clearer vision of the universe.
If they aren’t trying to take your stuff, hurt you, or kill you, why does it matter?
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”
— Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-1782
But as Rabbi Sammy Davis Junior once said:
“Real success is not on the stage, but off the stage as a human being, and how you get along with your fellow man.”
“I’m not one of those complicated, mixed-up cats. I’m not looking for the secret to life… I just go on from day to day, taking what comes.”
Frank Sinatra
“If you drink don’t drive. Don’t even putt.”
Dean Martin
If you have a life-saving truth that some others do not have, it is a kindness to tell them. And warning is not forcing.
And next thing you know… your entire culture has changed, and there’s not a single Christian actor allowed in the biz.
Thomas Jefferson was utterly, utterly wrong. Culture matters. Culture is a real thing. It can be injured.
Jefferson had the luxury of being surrounded by people who DID care about these matters, and he took it for granted.
His statement sounds exactly like the morons in Europe whose countries are being ruined by Islam and who SWEAR nothing is happening.
Jefferson being the religious genius who created a paste-up of the New Testament, leaving out Jesus’ miracles and divinity, and in fact, excluding anything supernatural. And then having the ‘nads to call it “The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth”.
Jefferson has no religious credibility whatsoever. Might as well get your religious learnin’ from Bill Maher.
Years and years ago I had this argument on usenet. (Arguing on usenet? Say it’s not so!) Someone, thinking herself mightly large hearted, proclaimed that “What you believe is True for You.” I did, in fact, explain that what I believed was either true or not true, and that what she’d said was essentially saying that no faith was True at all. She might be able to argue that any faith that someone found *useful* was *useful*, but she wasn’t being large hearted by saying they were all True. She was, in fact, being incredibly insulting. I would respect someone who said I was *wrong* far more than one who was condescending.
I tried analogies… say “hell” is like a bomb on an airplane. It’s either there or it’s not. You can say it’s not. But you can’t say that someone who believes there is a bomb but knows other people do not and *respects their beliefs* is a good person if they let them take off in the plane without warning. They might be wrong about it, but since they believe it, they’re a bad person if you don’t try to warn others. In any case, bottom line, the bomb either exists or it does not. Yes or no. You’re wrong or you’re right.
Sometimes the stupid on the internet hurts.
There are atheists who will say, “You are wrong.” I respect that. Christians call each other wrong all the time. I don’t have any respect at all for “What you believe is True for You.” All it means, at all, is that nothing is true and the person feels good expressing condescension in public.
It’s an understanding that Truth exists. Even if we’re not sure what it is, it exists, AND since it exists it’s worth spending time and care to try to figure out what it is.
“For any religion to be the one correct religion, it must first explain the origin of the universe, and of life on Earth.”
Why?
No, seriously. Why?
I think there is a reason that Genesis is so obscurely poetic. It’s not about what you said at all. It’s not at all the purpose of the book, and not the primary purpose of the religion. It’s so unimportant that it’s reduced to, “God said… BANG.” It’s probably only mentioned at all in order to introduce the concept of the fall, sin, and the need for redemption.
Ahh, Usenet. I remember
spendingwasting many fine hours posting to talk.politics.misc back in the day.Even Bill Maher understands that ISIS is evil.
If all religions are equally valid and all cultures are of equal value, then it makes no difference whether you pour water on a man’s face or burn him to death, after all, who are we to judge?
Or, if a man’s inalienable rights are granted to him by God, I would think it might make a difference in actually knowing who he is, rather that just spitballing anything about Him that strikes your fancy.
“A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men.”
— Ronald Dahl
*shrugs*
It’s only a truth if they share your faith. Otherwise it’s an opinion.
And a rather rude one at that.
You seem to say that the only way Christianity can survive is by being the only choice.
Since that doesn’t reflect well on Christianity, I’m hoping I’m reading you wrong.
Just for the record, some people in Jefferson’s time did feel that Christianity should have no competition. It’s why he wrote what he did.
Ah the Jefferson Bible.
He meant it as a private study and meditation aid. Although he did show it to friends, there was only one copy during his lifetime. It was lost in a collection of Jefferson family papers and not seen again for decades after his death. It was not published until 1895 and not widely distributed until well into the 20th Century.
What he did isn’t that much different from people highlighting, underlining passages, and generally marking up their Bible.
So do I.
That’s why I posted this (emphasis added)
“If they aren’t trying to take your stuff, hurt you, or kill you, why does it matter?”
Live and let live usually works if both you and the other guy agree to those simple conditions.
Capital letters aside, you can’t show that it’s truth to anyone who doesn’t share your faith or a similar one.
On the other hand, it’s an undeniable truth that I am low on milk and out of OJ. These facts can be measured.
Your “Truth” can’t. If it works for you, great. But don’t insist that everyone else defer. I think that matters of your faith are best settled between you and the Divine without involving anyone else.
How we treat others though, that effects everyone. How about we agree not to hurt each other or take each other’s property and work from there?
Still insisting on chasing your philosophical tail and expecting everyone else not hold you in contempt. There is absolute truth, and truth that is not true for everyone and thing, is not truth, it is simply a result of someone’s fevered imagination.
…because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse….Romans 1:19-20.
RKae said nothing of the sort. You’re simply taken with yourself and the conceits by which you live. Christianity will survive the end of the world, and no Christian has any doubt of this fact. As long as there a Satan alive and well on the earth, Christianity will not be the only choice. The choice, however, is a binary choice – Christ or death. And I’m not talking about the death that results in your remains buried either.
Jefferson so much as admitted he was not a Christian in a letter to John Adams. That he would produce a book that did not include the divinity of Christ is no surprise. Whatever the purpose for which it was produced, it reflects what Jefferson thought on the matter, and that’s why the book has seen the light of day.
Truth is objective and not relative. If warning you of the consequences of you rejecting Christ is rude, then so be it. The stakes are pretty high.
When God gave the 10 Commandments he said,
For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Exodus 20:11
In Genesis 1 he said what he did, then repeated himself in Exodus. If that’s not what he meant, then why did He say it in the manner He did? Scripture was given to convey a the message of Salvation. How is God going to convey that message if he’s lying, or beating around the bush, about what He did to bring us into existence, or in anything else He did? Either we can trust God in the small details, or He can’t be trusted with Salvation. The poetic dodge is nothing more than an obfuscation of the facts that so called “demythologizers” have pulled for the last two centuries.
That verse does not say what you are saying it does. That verse is from the Olivet address where Christ was dealing with the end of the age, the time we are living in now.
It is the only one that’s right. If it is not, then all religions are a lie. Only Christianity is self consistent, pointing to a Holy God that requires the same from those who profess to follow Him.
Islam taken as a whole is an evil religion. The Islamists are the only group that are consistent in its practice.
That is one interpretation (one that the apostles thought too). But it did not turn out that way. I disagree. In fact Christ admitted that only the father knows when the end times are coming.
It is about crushing the individual and that is evil
Warning someone is not the same as the Spanish Inquisition!
Although Barack Obama never forgets!
It’s rather rude to tell someone that they can have eternal life in perfect peace and happiness? Because what, you think it’s an opinion? Though you don’t seem to think it’s rude when you share unfortunate opinions here on this site.
The fact is, we got here only one of two ways. Either we were created or we evolved. If you did even the most trifling amount of honest research, you’d learn that there is vastly more actual evidence for creation than for evolution. And if there’s creation, there’s a God, and if there’s a God, then what I’m saying is true.
Since neither can be proved with any sort of controlled experimentation, let’s just say for fun that at worst case, there’s a 50/50 chance that either is true. (Even though there is more evidence for creation, but let’s just say for the sake of argument.)
If there’s a 50% chance that you could have eternal life simply by repentance and belief, wouldn’t it seem like a rational person would want to hear about it? You know, if only to evaluate all their options? If if the odds were less than 50% (which they’re not), eternal life seems like a pretty big gift to leave on the table, especially when you can easily check out the truth for yourself, as I did, and come to the conclusion that God is not dead?
“The speed limit is 35 MPH.”
“The speed limit is 70 MPH.”
Both are truths, neither excludes the other. It’s just that they don’t apply in the same place.
And then of course there are school zones where the speed limit on the same road varies according to the time of day.
Wouldn’t you call it rude if an atheist over there across the room insisted that your faith wasn’t real? And that his truth trumped yours?
I’m a “person of faith,” just not yours.
Jefferson was a Deist.
Does that make him less of a man?
Careful there, you’re talking about the Second Head of Rushmore, the Face of the Nickel, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence, and arguably one of the Stars of the Enlightenment.
If your only argument for scapegoating him is that he wasn’t Christian, well, that says more about you than him.
And it’s still opinion unless someone shares your faith.
oops – sorry, posted the wrong place. I already answered this one.
Let’s try that again in the right place this time.
“I am free to choose and free to take responsibility for myself. I am not a child to be threatened into submission. I will not blindly accept your mandates when the Divine and the world beckon.”
One of my bits from a few years back.
Keep chasing your tail, Neo.
You like strawmen too I see. No one is scapegoating Jefferson, and it is really stupid of you to even bring that up.
You probably have no idea what the term scapegoat even means, and what its significance is.
It’s not my opinion, but then you are a man for whom there is no truth.
I pointed out what the Apostle Paul said to people such as yourself about 1950 years ago.
As I pointed out when you posted that conceit back then, they aren’t my mandates. I am but the messenger.
Nope, it’s not.
It’s interesting to note that most religions are all about doing away with a person’s individuality. Christianity is just the opposite. Only in Christ is a person fully human, and valued as an individual.
Scripture must be taken in context for a passage to have meaning. The context of the passage is the Olivet address, when Christ is telling his Disciples what the characteristics of the end times would be. I know of no teacher that accepts your position.
There are passages that deal with what you are saying, but that isn’t it. Most of the time the subject is dealt with in the negative. For example:
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Or, more explicitly,
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. Romans 8:9
As Christ expressed it,
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11 “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. 14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. John 15:10-11,14