By Dan Riehl this time, seconding Melissa Clouthier’s “wild animal” characterization of journalists as inherently untrustworthy.
At least he links me. Love me, hate me, as long as you link me.
Here’s the thing: Media bias is a subject about which every conservative is his or her own expert. To denounce “the media,” whole hog, is obligatory for conservatives and no one who wishes to be well-regarded among conservatives can be permitted to question the efficacy of this approach to media relations.
Therefore, I must be condemned as a weak reed, a pushover blabbermouth who should never be trusted or taken seriously in any discussion of conservative media strategy.
OK, I give up.
Meanwhile, I just got through interviewing Andrew Breitbart about David Weigel and the Journolist scandal.
Ignore me. Because I don’t know nothin’ ’bout no media bias.
UPDATE: Dan Riehl replies: “But journalists who want to play blogger half the time risk running into the Weigel-Space trap, because establishment figures can begin to see you as less serious, or a loose cannon.”
Translation: Your advice is not welcome, because actual insight into the organizational dynamics of media bias, based on years of newsroom experience, might contradict the popular theories propounded by the overpaid Republican “media consultants” who’ve been doing such a great job lately.
Help Wanted: No Journalists Need Apply.
Here is what I do not understand. Why are you so hot about defending Dave Weigel? My take here http://rightviewfromtheleftcoast.blogspot.com/2010/06/weigel-affair-and-reality-that.html
is that if we have to depend on someone like Weigel to write and or comment about us, we have problems. It does not matter if it is Washington, New York City, Los Angeles. Or any city in between. As I point out we used to HAVE to put up with this before the internets came out. Before Fox News. There are real conservatives, not cheerleaders, out there that can do the same as Weigel. Byron York comes to mind. Having said all of this, let us see more about this JournoList. THAT may be the real story here.
Don’t you just love stuff like this? It is enough to make you bang you head against your desk!
Here is what I do not understand. Why are you so hot about defending Dave Weigel? My take here http://rightviewfromtheleftcoast.blogspot.com/2010/06/weigel-affair-and-reality-that.html
is that if we have to depend on someone like Weigel to write and or comment about us, we have problems. It does not matter if it is Washington, New York City, Los Angeles. Or any city in between. As I point out we used to HAVE to put up with this before the internets came out. Before Fox News. There are real conservatives, not cheerleaders, out there that can do the same as Weigel. Byron York comes to mind. Having said all of this, let us see more about this JournoList. THAT may be the real story here.
Don’t you just love stuff like this? It is enough to make you bang you head against your desk!
You are not defending Weigel so much as not joining the dogpile on him. You know him personally. I get that.
Frankly, most of this Wiegel stuff is insider baseball. I never really read his stuff, never relied on him, and I am frankly neither hurt nor shocked by his inner scumbagginess. If anything it shows how pathetic the Washington Post really is.
You are not defending Weigel so much as not joining the dogpile on him. You know him personally. I get that.
Frankly, most of this Wiegel stuff is insider baseball. I never really read his stuff, never relied on him, and I am frankly neither hurt nor shocked by his inner scumbagginess. If anything it shows how pathetic the Washington Post really is.
“One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people’s minds.”
Frank Zappa
I think Melissa makes a good point about journalists and conservatives, but most journalists are far from being noble magnificent predators like Bengal tigers. A better animal deamon for the 4th estate would be inbred rabid weasels.
“One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people’s minds.”
Frank Zappa
I think Melissa makes a good point about journalists and conservatives, but most journalists are far from being noble magnificent predators like Bengal tigers. A better animal deamon for the 4th estate would be inbred rabid weasels.
Exactly. We have problems, and it is time to ask whether the media strategies that worked for conservatives circa 1994-2004 have passed their sell-by date.
It’s like football. There was a time when the wishbone offense utterly dominated college football. Eventually, however, coaches figured out how to beat the wishbone, and nobody uses the wishbone any more.
As Breitbart made clear in the American Spectator interview I linked, after Democrats got their asses kicked in 2004, they reverse-engineered the GOP “attack machine,” counteracting it in such a way as to render it far less effective than it had previously been.
Breitbart’s analysis of the current situation, and his approach to combatting it, is at least innovative. He’s doing more than just shouting “liberal bias! liberal bias! liberal bias!”
As Travis Tritt might say, that whiskey ain’t working anymore.
Exactly. We have problems, and it is time to ask whether the media strategies that worked for conservatives circa 1994-2004 have passed their sell-by date.
It’s like football. There was a time when the wishbone offense utterly dominated college football. Eventually, however, coaches figured out how to beat the wishbone, and nobody uses the wishbone any more.
As Breitbart made clear in the American Spectator interview I linked, after Democrats got their asses kicked in 2004, they reverse-engineered the GOP “attack machine,” counteracting it in such a way as to render it far less effective than it had previously been.
Breitbart’s analysis of the current situation, and his approach to combatting it, is at least innovative. He’s doing more than just shouting “liberal bias! liberal bias! liberal bias!”
As Travis Tritt might say, that whiskey ain’t working anymore.
I would be the first to agree we have problems: the complete cluelessness of almost everybody on the official right as to how to effectively use New Media, the capture of the institutions of the right by rent seekers and montebanks, and yes, continued use of a media strategy made popular by Spiro Agnew (“nattering nabobs of negativism” anyone?)
What I, and most other commenters, fail to see is how on earth this relates to Weigel. Maybe you’re responding to stuff I can’t hear, or reading a subtext I can’t see, but “Weigel isn’t and hasn’t been a conservative for a long time, if ever” “what else did you expect from WaPo” does not equal “we can’t ever trust the media” or “The media is the source of all evil.” Most especially, it doesn’t mean “there is no place in media for conservatives.”
As far as not being trusted by the subject of your scrutiny, we’ve all seen the horrors visited upon those who were so slow-witted as to trust reporters. particularly those dedicated to not being messengers, but rather seekers of truth. Anybody who assumes that any reporter is his friend without a long and faultless history demonstrating such is, bluntly, a fool. No matter his protestations of being on the subject’s side, a reporte is a dangerous beast that is perfectly capable of destroying a political career, a business, a life.
Or, if you will, a wild animal in search of meat. I’ve seen it happen to people I know. And mostly it’s NOT in pursuit of ideological goals, but rather in pursuit of the story.
When you made the decision to become a reporter, you made the decision to not be trusted by strangers, at least the smart ones. If you are going to be a reporter, you’re going to be treated like a reporter, which means people will be guarded in their speech, and will clam up when they find out. It’s not you, it’s your vocation. It’s not conservative vs liberal, it’s endemic to reporting from local paper interns to Mike Wallace.
I would be the first to agree we have problems: the complete cluelessness of almost everybody on the official right as to how to effectively use New Media, the capture of the institutions of the right by rent seekers and montebanks, and yes, continued use of a media strategy made popular by Spiro Agnew (“nattering nabobs of negativism” anyone?)
What I, and most other commenters, fail to see is how on earth this relates to Weigel. Maybe you’re responding to stuff I can’t hear, or reading a subtext I can’t see, but “Weigel isn’t and hasn’t been a conservative for a long time, if ever” “what else did you expect from WaPo” does not equal “we can’t ever trust the media” or “The media is the source of all evil.” Most especially, it doesn’t mean “there is no place in media for conservatives.”
As far as not being trusted by the subject of your scrutiny, we’ve all seen the horrors visited upon those who were so slow-witted as to trust reporters. particularly those dedicated to not being messengers, but rather seekers of truth. Anybody who assumes that any reporter is his friend without a long and faultless history demonstrating such is, bluntly, a fool. No matter his protestations of being on the subject’s side, a reporte is a dangerous beast that is perfectly capable of destroying a political career, a business, a life.
Or, if you will, a wild animal in search of meat. I’ve seen it happen to people I know. And mostly it’s NOT in pursuit of ideological goals, but rather in pursuit of the story.
When you made the decision to become a reporter, you made the decision to not be trusted by strangers, at least the smart ones. If you are going to be a reporter, you’re going to be treated like a reporter, which means people will be guarded in their speech, and will clam up when they find out. It’s not you, it’s your vocation. It’s not conservative vs liberal, it’s endemic to reporting from local paper interns to Mike Wallace.
American Power tracked-back with, ‘Updates on the David Weigel ‘JournoList’ Scandal’.
American Power tracked-back with, ‘Updates on the David Weigel ‘JournoList’ Scandal’.
The Corrupt Media went all in for Obama and Company in 2008 and any dignity they had left was shot, they are DEAD! The Weigel deal is an insider’s view of how the left has DESTROYED the ability of the Corrupt Media to even show a modicum of integrity. The bottom line is he and they MSDNC,CBS,NBC,ABC,NYT, Post have trust numbers in the area of Congress, the blessing is America is AWAKE in spite of their best attempts to fool them.
I will in the future see Weigel write something somewhere and I will pop in to remind the viewers of his DECEPTIVE nature. I spend enough time on the internet to include such a honorable into my time.
American Power tracked-back with, ‘Updates on the David Weigel ‘JournoList’ Scandal’.
Link fixed.
The Corrupt Media went all in for Obama and Company in 2008 and any dignity they had left was shot, they are DEAD! The Weigel deal is an insider’s view of how the left has DESTROYED the ability of the Corrupt Media to even show a modicum of integrity. The bottom line is he and they MSDNC,CBS,NBC,ABC,NYT, Post have trust numbers in the area of Congress, the blessing is America is AWAKE in spite of their best attempts to fool them.
I will in the future see Weigel write something somewhere and I will pop in to remind the viewers of his DECEPTIVE nature. I spend enough time on the internet to include such a honorable into my time.
American Power tracked-back with, ‘Updates on the David Weigel ‘JournoList’ Scandal’.
Link fixed.
Breitbart’s analysis of the current situation, and his approach to combatting it, is at least innovative. He’s doing more than just shouting “liberal bias! liberal bias! liberal bias!”
And THAT is why I love Breitbart! He is doing SOMETHING about it. I don’t like whinning about it either. Just want to get our point of view out there through the filter of the dominant left-wing reporting culture. BTW, you are regretably right about the culture of the newsroom in modern America. UGH!
Breitbart’s analysis of the current situation, and his approach to combatting it, is at least innovative. He’s doing more than just shouting “liberal bias! liberal bias! liberal bias!”
And THAT is why I love Breitbart! He is doing SOMETHING about it. I don’t like whinning about it either. Just want to get our point of view out there through the filter of the dominant left-wing reporting culture. BTW, you are regretably right about the culture of the newsroom in modern America. UGH!
I thought Dan was way over the top, but I did feel a bit of recognition in this comment about Stacy.
“While a brilliant, informed writer when he focuses seriously on hard news and politics, as he should do more often”
Stacy, I know you style yourself as the Hunter S. Thompson of conservative journalism, and while that’s not totally inaccurate, I think of you more as the Jimmy Buffett of conservative journalism. First, You’re both bright guys from Alabama with fairly wild pasts.
If you listen to Jimmy’s early albums you will also see some of the best singer-songwriting out there. He was a really talented chronicler of a certain Southern-fried, beach oriented, hard-living, anti-authority lifestyle. But later on Jimmy got too in love with being cute and if you ever listen to one of his newer albums or go to a Buffett show today, it’s all about Margaritaville Tequila and drunk fratboys.
About a decade ago I got to spend a long evening talking to Jimmy as part of a work project I was doing. I found him to be a terrifically bright and talented guy who didn’t *believe* that he was terrifically bright and talented, and therefore often used cuteness as a defense mechanism. I sense the same, on occasion, here.
That’s all a long way of saying that while I don’t mind the occasional rule 5 Sunday or risque joke, I do wish you would concentrate more on some of the hard-core political analysis– when you want to, you write some of the best stuff out there anywhere. Some of it is jaw-dropingly good. And that, rather than repeated Miley Cyrus Upskirt jokes, is what keeps me coming to this site.
I thought Dan was way over the top, but I did feel a bit of recognition in this comment about Stacy.
“While a brilliant, informed writer when he focuses seriously on hard news and politics, as he should do more often”
Stacy, I know you style yourself as the Hunter S. Thompson of conservative journalism, and while that’s not totally inaccurate, I think of you more as the Jimmy Buffett of conservative journalism. First, You’re both bright guys from Alabama with fairly wild pasts.
If you listen to Jimmy’s early albums you will also see some of the best singer-songwriting out there. He was a really talented chronicler of a certain Southern-fried, beach oriented, hard-living, anti-authority lifestyle. But later on Jimmy got too in love with being cute and if you ever listen to one of his newer albums or go to a Buffett show today, it’s all about Margaritaville Tequila and drunk fratboys.
About a decade ago I got to spend a long evening talking to Jimmy as part of a work project I was doing. I found him to be a terrifically bright and talented guy who didn’t *believe* that he was terrifically bright and talented, and therefore often used cuteness as a defense mechanism. I sense the same, on occasion, here.
That’s all a long way of saying that while I don’t mind the occasional rule 5 Sunday or risque joke, I do wish you would concentrate more on some of the hard-core political analysis– when you want to, you write some of the best stuff out there anywhere. Some of it is jaw-dropingly good. And that, rather than repeated Miley Cyrus Upskirt jokes, is what keeps me coming to this site.
Excuse the opacity. Breitbart saw in Weigel’s experience a crucial revelation of how liberals are influencing media in the Digital Age. Breitbart wants to expose the methods and players of this behind-the-scenes operation, sunlight being the best disinfectant. So, as he says, “It’s not about Dave Weigel.”
Breitbart is aiming at much larger game, and people who are concentrating on Weigel as the Emmanuel Goldstein of this latter-day Nineteen Eighty-Four are missing the real story. Exactly what Breitbart does next, I don’t know and I’m not sure Breitbart knows yet, but he’s onto something. And he’s up to something.
Excuse the opacity. Breitbart saw in Weigel’s experience a crucial revelation of how liberals are influencing media in the Digital Age. Breitbart wants to expose the methods and players of this behind-the-scenes operation, sunlight being the best disinfectant. So, as he says, “It’s not about Dave Weigel.”
Breitbart is aiming at much larger game, and people who are concentrating on Weigel as the Emmanuel Goldstein of this latter-day Nineteen Eighty-Four are missing the real story. Exactly what Breitbart does next, I don’t know and I’m not sure Breitbart knows yet, but he’s onto something. And he’s up to something.
Well, if anybody can find the dirt, it’s Breitbart.
Well, if anybody can find the dirt, it’s Breitbart.
Remember: I write for money. When I went out on the road in April reporting in Nevada, Arizona, Louisiana and Alabama, traffic actually went down. Why? Because some bloggers resent the hell out of bloggers who actually do reporting, and make a point of never linking them. (Hint: I’m not talking about Dan, who does actual reporting and links me regularly.)
You take it as you find it, see? The blogosphere is what it is, and I have to operate within that system, because I’m not Tucker Carlson with a couple of million bucks of somebody else’s money to throw around.
Remember: I write for money. When I went out on the road in April reporting in Nevada, Arizona, Louisiana and Alabama, traffic actually went down. Why? Because some bloggers resent the hell out of bloggers who actually do reporting, and make a point of never linking them. (Hint: I’m not talking about Dan, who does actual reporting and links me regularly.)
You take it as you find it, see? The blogosphere is what it is, and I have to operate within that system, because I’m not Tucker Carlson with a couple of million bucks of somebody else’s money to throw around.
I agree with everything you’ve written in this posting, Stacy, except for one slight thing: the whiskey still works for me.
I agree with everything you’ve written in this posting, Stacy, except for one slight thing: the whiskey still works for me.
Yeah, Stacy, I know. And I’m really not trying to judge the stellar efforts of someone who is trying to make things work while supporting a wife and six kids. I’m just advocating in real-time for the stuff that I like FWIW.
Your broader point is part of why you are right about conservatives in relationship to journalism. the GOP in general has a really hard time with independent criticism, even when that is done by friends. And we do a lousy job of supporting our own grassroots. It amazes me some of the day jobs that top conservative bloggers have to hold down to make ends meet.
If there were justice in the world, we’d have some conservative foundations cutting good-sized checks to all of the well-trafficked conservative blogs while Ezra Klein would be sorting through KFC garbage bins muttering “There’s one with meat on it. . .”
Yeah, Stacy, I know. And I’m really not trying to judge the stellar efforts of someone who is trying to make things work while supporting a wife and six kids. I’m just advocating in real-time for the stuff that I like FWIW.
Your broader point is part of why you are right about conservatives in relationship to journalism. the GOP in general has a really hard time with independent criticism, even when that is done by friends. And we do a lousy job of supporting our own grassroots. It amazes me some of the day jobs that top conservative bloggers have to hold down to make ends meet.
If there were justice in the world, we’d have some conservative foundations cutting good-sized checks to all of the well-trafficked conservative blogs while Ezra Klein would be sorting through KFC garbage bins muttering “There’s one with meat on it. . .”
HMMM! While I “off” Democrats and Republicans, I do find the Liberal/Conservative Media War (or struggle) quite fascinating and very important. One thing that is just so damn true is that the Left is very good at organizing the troops for a media attack/war/battle, etc. And when I say media, I mean all types of media.
One thing that I feel that could help conservatives immensely is to go after, and go hard after, traditionally Liberal/Left demographics. Uh oh. A no win situation? Not at all. As a black dude, there are many black folks that are more socially conservative than the Democrats they vote for. Yes identity politics is strong BUT with the economic flux, opinions are becoming more fluid. By breaking into these demographics, conservatives can set up some media “in-reach” and outreach if you catch my drift. I’m just using black folks as an example. Conservative principles by themselves with added spice make a lot of good sense. Peeling the boogeyman off of conservatives can be challenging but not impossible.
Innovation and courage is the way.
HMMM! While I “off” Democrats and Republicans, I do find the Liberal/Conservative Media War (or struggle) quite fascinating and very important. One thing that is just so damn true is that the Left is very good at organizing the troops for a media attack/war/battle, etc. And when I say media, I mean all types of media.
One thing that I feel that could help conservatives immensely is to go after, and go hard after, traditionally Liberal/Left demographics. Uh oh. A no win situation? Not at all. As a black dude, there are many black folks that are more socially conservative than the Democrats they vote for. Yes identity politics is strong BUT with the economic flux, opinions are becoming more fluid. By breaking into these demographics, conservatives can set up some media “in-reach” and outreach if you catch my drift. I’m just using black folks as an example. Conservative principles by themselves with added spice make a lot of good sense. Peeling the boogeyman off of conservatives can be challenging but not impossible.
Innovation and courage is the way.
[…] We not-respect you* because you’re a racist raaaaacist. […]
Stacy,
Im glad you never had a dead horse to beat. That would be a lifetime of work for you. But the self-deprecating, Ima good boy I am, seems to be still working in spite of the horse be it dead or alive. instead of saying “but Jim, Im a Doctor” Stacy says, “My fellow bloggers, really, Im a reporter, journalist, blogger, begger, etc,” Altogether, fun to watch and read!
Just remember the famous line from Roots that could be about ChuckieJ the ‘master’, “What kina man wood cut off another man’s FOOTE?” Are you that man, Chuckie? Oh Yeah, Roots is now a Raaaaacist movie worse than Shaft. Whoops!
Stacy,
Im glad you never had a dead horse to beat. That would be a lifetime of work for you. But the self-deprecating, Ima good boy I am, seems to be still working in spite of the horse be it dead or alive. instead of saying “but Jim, Im a Doctor” Stacy says, “My fellow bloggers, really, Im a reporter, journalist, blogger, begger, etc,” Altogether, fun to watch and read!
Just remember the famous line from Roots that could be about ChuckieJ the ‘master’, “What kina man wood cut off another man’s FOOTE?” Are you that man, Chuckie? Oh Yeah, Roots is now a Raaaaacist movie worse than Shaft. Whoops!
Wondering Jew:
Ezra Klein would be sorting through KFC garbage bins muttering “There’s one with meat on it. . .”
Thank you for that visual (really) from your mouth to God’s ear.
Wondering Jew:
Ezra Klein would be sorting through KFC garbage bins muttering “There’s one with meat on it. . .”
Thank you for that visual (really) from your mouth to God’s ear.
Seriously, you and Dan are still talking about Weigel? Leave yesterday’s news for yesterday. It is DEFINITELY time to move on!
Seriously, you and Dan are still talking about Weigel? Leave yesterday’s news for yesterday. It is DEFINITELY time to move on!
Calm is not the nature of my blogging, never has been. But calm inside I am. We’re all adults. People can take criticsm in stride, or not.
Posted by: Dan Riehl | Monday, June 28, 2010 at 06:06 PM
Fortunately I speak New Jersey. This translates as: “Stacy is ok, I just respectfully disagree on this issue.”
Calm is not the nature of my blogging, never has been. But calm inside I am. We’re all adults. People can take criticsm in stride, or not.
Posted by: Dan Riehl | Monday, June 28, 2010 at 06:06 PM
Fortunately I speak New Jersey. This translates as: “Stacy is ok, I just respectfully disagree on this issue.”
I’ve been waiting all through the
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
between you and Dan to see if either of you would mention that it is fitting “journ-O-list” is being retired now that Peter Orszag is moving on.
Maybe “journ-O-list” just needed a dramatic “exit strategy”.
I’ve been waiting all through the
FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!
between you and Dan to see if either of you would mention that it is fitting “journ-O-list” is being retired now that Peter Orszag is moving on.
Maybe “journ-O-list” just needed a dramatic “exit strategy”.
[…] No Commentsby SmittyThis blog is witnessing some extremely un-mellow comments, as witnessed on the Insulted Again thread. The Wondering Jew offered this completely unacceptable observation:If you listen to […]
Weigel landed a gig with the Keith Olberman Show.
Weigel landed a gig with the Keith Olberman Show.
You’ve got to be pretending not to know why GOPers don’t hire you. The baggage in your past means that any campaign that puts a payment to you in its finance report might as well just wear a “Kick Me” sign.
You’ve got to be pretending not to know why GOPers don’t hire you. The baggage in your past means that any campaign that puts a payment to you in its finance report might as well just wear a “Kick Me” sign.